US General Election 2016

That's 17.2% of GDP spent on healthcare, not spent by the government on healthcare.  It's mainly private.

yes, the US spends a larger fraction per head, but since it's paid by employers, the employees don't care.

Is this less efficient, economically speaking?  Yes.
Do the larger part of voters feel they are suffering because of this?  No.

I would think business leaders would be enthusiastic about not having to pay for healthcare, and I'm not sure why they are not.  It may be because they've found employees will give up more than the equivalent in salary, or perhaps they feel they'd lose the ability to attract better employees.  I really don't know, but for some reason big business is not behind government run health care.  Employees who get the benefits are largely not.  My guess is that the split for/against government run healthcare would be 40/60.

But nearly everyone supports government plans for the elderly, and I think a moderate majority supports government support for the poor.  So that's what we've got.

not spent by the government on healthcare.  It's mainly private.- Halfy

{{Effectively makes no difference- instead of the government taking a modest amount of tax from your wage and you never having another medical bill in your life, you pay a much bigger chunk of your wage to an employer to rip you off! Why on earth would someone think that was better? And it leaves millions without anything.

From the outside at least the US health-system seems cruel, greedy, immoral, unethical, disgusting and sickening. There is a good reason no one has ever followed the US model. It constantly amazes me Americans dont see it.
And of all the Americans Ive ever known who came to live here and use our NHS- Ive never heard anyone say they would prefer the US system.
Including President Trump!- Trump said: “As far as single-payer, it works in Canada, works incredibly well in Scotland. }}

{{edit add- The President was speaking on the David Letterman show in 2015 and described a friend’s experience in Scotland where he has a major golf course.
He said: “I had an incident in Scotland... a friend of mine in Scotland, he got very, very sick and they took him by ambulance, he was there for four days.
“He was really in trouble. And they released him and he said ‘where do I pay?’ and they said ‘there’s no charge’.
“And not only that it was great doctors and great care.” }}}

{{from 6.30 }}

I'm not defending it, just explaining why there's no big push to change. Change is the unknown.

I've been on Obamacare for the last year as I put myself on half time to write grants so that hopefully I'll be bringing in my own money. It works great if you're in a progressive state that supports it and aren't making a lot of money. Probably sucks if you're in one of the states that actively resisted it.

{{I appreciate your not advocating for the insurance capitalist led care Halfy, you'll have to forgive me but I find the cruelty and inhumanity of it to be something which really gets my crabbit going- no one, least of all the most vulnerable, in the wealthiest nation on earth should be left either without health care or choosing between basic necessities and paying for healthcare. Its just wrong and immoral.

Also my own experience over the last 30 years as a care worker has given me a very negative view of capitalist focused care- when I first became a career in my area there were about a dozen council run homes and two private (one run by the Church), the ratio of care worker to resident was 1 to 3, the pay was decent, about £2 an hour above the minimum average of the time, with bonus pay for night-shift, you had a pension scheme you could opt into and the care was patient focused trying to give quality of life through maintaining hobbies, pastimes, friendships, places they liked to go etc
Then along came Thatcher's policies of privitisation, free enterprise and capitalist dreams. As a result and direct consequence of which now in this area there is 1 council home constantly under the threat of closure. The rest of the council homes were closed, in the place of a dozen homes there are now about 4 private ones- and they are people factories. The staff ratio is about 1-5 if your lucky, there is no time for quality of life issues its just shower them, toilet them wheel them to a table, from table to seat, seat to toilet and back, back to table for lunch, back to seat for afternoon, toilet as needed and if there's a chance, back to table for dinner, back to seats, shoved in bed by 9-10, and what little time you might have had to try to provide some respite to this prison like life is taken up now with endlessly pointless courses- health and safety, lifting and handling (in my 30 years I have done that course approx 50 times! I could teach the fucking thing as they make it mandatory to refresh every year, but often you do it twice in a year depending when the trainers turn up), svq (college level qualification, which unlike most such qualifications you cannot get without first being a care worker- this might seem stupid, and it is, but if they do it this way they can call it 'in work training', if you could get the qualification first then they would have to hire you as a qualified worker, which means more pay, but as you cant get it first they can use the 'in work training' claim and so when they hire you its as a unskilled worker, on minimum or close wage- and no even when you get the svq it doesn't change your pay a jot, the worker gets nothing from it save about 40-60 hours of unpaid work to do on top of their shifts - you do it in your own time, and to make it worse its a legal requirement to be a carer.)
There is no pension scheme, the wage is if your lucky maybe 20p or so above minimum unskilled worker wages and managements two main concerns are box ticking to appease the Care Commission and profits.
Back when I started when a resident passed away the room used to get about a week or so empty, to be deep cleaned and freshened up, left to air and out of respect for the deceased. These days, Ive seen a person die in the night and their room be taken by a new resident by the afternoon- its all about numbers, its all about cash- and they maximise profits by hiring minimum work force, paying shit wages with no night-shift bonus, and cramming as many bodies into the building as is possible. That's what private enterprise has done to care of the elderly here. And I hate it with all my heart. So forgive me if I get a bit passionate on the matter!}}

Existing as a woman in the world can be frustrating. Men hit on us at bars, make passes at us on the train, even follow us on the streets. It’s so stressful to have to constantly monitor our what we’re wearing, how much we’re drinking, and who’s around us so that we aren’t faced with unwanted male attention. But recently, I’ve noticed that there’s an emerging group of women who barely have to deal with any attention from men at all. I wanted that for my life, so I decided to be one of those women. And that’s why I’m announcing that I’m running for president of the United States.

http://reductress.com/post/how-i-stopped-getting-unwanted-attention-from-men-by-running-for-president/

{{ Now China is hitting back in the tit-for-tat with the US on tariffs and hitting farmers again Trump has just said -

'"And out of the billions of dollars that we’re taking in, a small portion of that will be going to our farmers...We’re going to take the highest year — the biggest purchase that China has made with our farmers, which is about $15 billion — and do something reciprocal to our farmers, so our farmers can do well, they’ll be planting, they’ll be able to sell for less...Our farmers will be happy."

Just curious Dave- are you happy? }}

Seems this trade war will simply end with more subsidies for farmers.  So instead of losing money buying technology from China, we pay more for the same technology, then have to pay the farmers when China retaliates!

But we're showing China who's the boss, so it all must be worth it somehow.

First, I think most farmers would agree that we're not too concerned with onetime price spikes or dips. We're used to that. What's a lot more important to a farmer is having some stability in the market year-to-year, and even 2-3 years out. Right now we're getting ready for the bloom that will make the fall 2019 crop, but we're also managing for the buds that will make the bloom for the 2020 crop, we've got one recently renovated field that will come into production in 2020, and another in 2021, and we're needing to decide what we're doing for the 2022 crop. Will there be a market for it or not? Right now, who can tell?

That's just normal uncertainty for a farmer, but it doesn't help that we've got someone in the White House that thinks this is a game of Liar's Poker and it's all about who can win the bluff

Also, I know a lot of farmers, and I've never met anybody who received a penny from the last round of promised aid to farmers after the first China tariffs. I'm betting it all went to a handful of billion dollar agribusinesses....

{{ I dont think your President understands global markets.

Here's his latest bit of crazy-

'He (Trump) added that US consumers could avoid the tariffs by buying the same products from other sources.'

That's not generally how it works. It people like Dave trying to sell stuff to a market that's vanished that's a problem. Its companies buying bulk goods like steel or electronics that will pay the cost of the tariffs, and they will pass that onto consumers.
Its not about the consumer just shopping around for stuff to avoid them. That's just, well, its gibberish.
And even if it were somehow possible for people to know which goods are using imported materials from China and which not, and to avoid the import ones- that would just hit sales of large US companies who employ people in the US, but who use imported materials in their products. Now they'd be paying extra on all the stuff they need to manufacture their goods, and then the President is telling everyone not to buy it when it's made!


edit add- its OK Dave, apparently he is going to use tax payer money (guessing everyone just stopped thinking about the US deficit at this point!) to subsidise all the 'patriotic farmers' and buy all your crops so he can then distribute it to the worlds starving! I do hope your a 'patriotic' farmer Dave!

afterthought - is the US govenrment using government money to buy all the farmers produce in order to redistribute it any different than Communist China using state money to purchase all the produce in order to redistribute it? Are US farmers essentially in the same boat as their Chinese counterparts now, farming for the State? }}}}

{{ Watching Trump give a speech about farmers and ranchers. If I was either Id be pretty pissed that the President has so far spent the entire time talking about how he didn't have a temper tantrum, calling on one aid after another to back up that he was 'calm'- he's gone through 4 aides so far. Its both utterly narcissist and worryingly close to looking like mental illness.
Been watching so far for about 15 mins- still waiting got hear the word farmer or rancher!

Oh god he's called on yet another aide to back up his version of events- this is horrible to watch, like watching the mentally ill being brought out to dance! }}

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

{{ If its any consolation Dave there doers appear to have been an announcement somewhere, I suspect made by someone saner outside the freak show I just watched.
He has pledged another 16 billion of aid- so yeah youre on handouts, bet that feels good
Also, Im no farmer but announcing this when farmers are deciding what to plant seems odd, surely everyone will just switch to soybeans as they get the biggest handout and not go bust?
Oh and dont worry about all the markets you've lost, apparently Trump is going to find you new 'asian' markets to replace the Chinese. Yeah good luck with that. Sure there a cue of Asian countries just waiting to piss off China!
And as Trump keeps on insisting, dont worry Americans, China are paying for it all, honest, not a cent from tariffs are being passed onto consumers.
And if you believe that piece of complete illogicality in defiance of all the facts and every tariff war ever fought I've London Bridge to sell you! }}

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ I've London Bridge to sell you! }}

Just out of curiosity, what kind of shape is it in, and what are you asking for it?
There's a guy over here in Arizona that has one and it's pretty cool!

{{ Its in great shape, honest, an very expensive. However my Better Half says you can get a bargain as she will throw in for cheap a tower 'cause it's a bit wonky, apparently it has a bit of a lean to it  }}

Makes me angry as hell.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/grim-reports-border-detention-concentration-camps-165512055.html

{{ Has Trump finally crossed a line with his open and blatantly racist 'go back where you came from tweets?
Amazed at the Republican silence. The President of the 'Free World' is making openly racist comments and no one is saying anything. That's maybe an even bigger disgrace on the Republican side. }}

Republicans don't see any political benefit in criticizing his attacks on the far left. He can basically say anything he wants to say about them and wouldn't get a peep. Says something about character, doesn't it?

{{ I noticed a few republicans have now come out to speak against the remarks, but most are stopping short of naming it what it is, racist. Saying instead mealy-mouthed things like he should improve the discourse etc.
In fairness to Chris Wallace on Fox he described the tweets as 'not a racist 'dog-whistle' as this was plain for everyone to hear.' }}

Chris Wallace is a truly bona-fide reporter. The real reporters on Fox are actually quite good, but they get drowned out by the opinion shows.

{{ Question for Dave. First what Trump said today about the effect of his trade war with China-

"...the tens of billions of dollars that the U.S. is receiving is a gift from China. Prices not up, no inflation. Farmers getting more than China would be spending. Fake News won’t report!"

Well, what's the word among farmers Dave? You all rolling about in the lap of luxury now thanks to the tarriffs? }}

It's looking like there may be a little money coming from the first round of tariffs possibly later this year. There's paperwork. We'll see.

In the mean time our Secretary of Agriculture is acting like an idiot.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sonny-perdue-whining-farmers-angry-reaction_n_5d51e64ce4b0c63bcbec0c10

Actually, listening that he didn't seem to tone deaf. A farmer had just very tactfully apologized for laying some grievances on him, and Purdue repeated a the joke he said he'd heard from another farmer. It seemed like he was softening the need for the apology rather than mocking. His long smiling silence afterwards didn't speak to well to his point but he didn't seem to be using the joke against farmers.

It's that old rule of not repeating jokes about a group you're not a part of. Just like there are plenty of jokes that are funny when told by a woman, but not by a man...