US General Election 2016

{{{ The BBC's take on it- }}}

'... after much prevarication he has essentially followed the line of his senior military advisers....Mr Trump admitted that his instinct was to withdraw US forces from Afghanistan altogether. But having grappled with the self-same problems as his predecessor Barack Obama he has come up with a broadly similar answer - more training and assistance for the Afghan forces to help them resist Taliban advances...Of course Mr Trump inevitably tried to present this policy as a new departure...Things are not going well for government forces. The Taliban hold almost half of the country and the Afghan military's performance - other than its elite special forces - is patchy at best. So there is a lot to do just to stabilise the situation...But Pakistan - half-ally, half-problem for Washington - is also the prime intermediary with the Taliban - a group at least parts of which, Mr Trump hoped one day, possibly, to bring to the negotiating table...these then are the broad lines of the Trump vision for an Afghan policy. The details? Well, they will become apparent later. It is the moment when the Trump rhetoric came up against the Afghan reality, and the Afghan reality has probably won.
Afghanistan has now become Mr Trump's war. He faced the same set of bad options faced by his predecessors. And whatever the rhetoric he seems to have set a broadly similar course.'

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{{ The BBC's take on it- }}}

'
Afghanistan has now become Mr Trump's war. He faced the same set of bad options faced by his predecessors. And whatever the rhetoric he seems to have set a broadly similar course.'

Yep. And "predecessors" go back as least as far as Brezhnev {{{and look how that worked out for the Soviet Union... }}}

That reminds me of the Chechnyan joke going back to the beginning of the Chechnyen war.

Three Chechnyans were sitting around a bar before the Soviet invasion, feeling worried. The first one spoke up: "It may not be so bad. Remember Napoleon's France went up against Russia, and they became the leader of European Culture, the language of diplomacy for two hundred years!"

The second one exclaimed: "And think of Germany! Hitler's armies went up against Russia, and now they are the economic powerhouse of Europe!"

The third one yawned and opened his eyes, licked his lips and said "Yeah ... but what if we win?"


Afghanistan has never been defeated by anyone since Alexander the Great, and look where it's gotten them.

Nope, at Phoenix he was back to being Trump again. When I saw he was doing another "rally" I knew it was probably a forlorn hope.

halfwise wrote:I haven't seen a video of Trump's speech on Afghanistan, but from what I've read he's finally acting presidential.  Laying out a strategy that focusses on eliminating Taliban rather than nation building, leaving fine-tuning to generals on the ground, etc, etc.  Even if you don't agree with it, at least it sounds reasoned for once, and his admission that things look different once you're in the oval office (he's increasing troops rather than decreasing as he promised in his campaign) is the opposite of his usual chest thumping idiocy.  I'm hoping his new chief of staff has him under control and we'll see more coherence from now on.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/08/trump-goes-off-script-in-hour-long-public-meltdown

http://nypost.com/2017/08/21/the-secret-service-has-gone-broke-protecting-trump/

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/347585-trump-claims-news-media-turned-off-cameras-at-rally-as-live-coverage



https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/post-politics/wp/2017/08/23/as-trump-ranted-and-rambled-in-phoenix-his-crowd-slowly-thinned/

“We've ended the war on beautiful, clean coal, and it's just been announced that a second, brand-new coal mine, where they're going to take out clean coal — meaning, they're taking out coal, they're going to clean it — is opening in the state of Pennsylvania,” Trump said, completely misrepresenting what clean coal is.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-supporter-phoenix-rally-crowd-size-photos-fake-half-empty-room-us-president-a7907801.html



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-dementia-early-onset-cnn-ana-navarro-commentator-news-phoenix-rally-a7907696.html

Nice job America

https://www.reddit.com/r/TrumpCriticizesTrump/

{{{ Dont worry Halfy- they sent teleprompter Trump out today to tell everyone to pretend they are in a 70's coca-cola ad*, so all is well!


* for those too young for the 70's

}}}

Yep, sounds like Trump, who seems to think 75% of the world is white.

{{ Ever since Trump first ran for President something has been nagging away at me about how he speaks and presents himself- something familiar. I've heard it before, somewhere. But could never place where, until now.

These are the words of one of the first known Kings of a civilised state- Ur in this case, circa 3000bc ish, all I have done is take their words, recorded on tablets in cuneiform, and changed names and the odd word.

"No one writes as well as me, no one tweets as greatly as Donald Trump."

("no one commands the words as well as me, no one writes the tablets as greatly as Shrupi.")

"I can make things grow. I am the best at it. At agriculture, I am the best. No one is better than Donald Trump at growing."

(I can make the crops grow and fields yield. At this I am best. At agriculture, I am the best. None is better than Shrupi at growing.)

"I bring peace to America, is there any greater at uniting the people than Trump?"

(Shrupi brings peace to the lands, is there any greater at uniting the people than Shrupi?)

Trump is basically using the same rhetorical devises used by the very first Kings of civilisation to promote themselves as more than ordinary (divine in fact in their case- not sure what Trump's excuse is!)! He is that basic. But like those early Kings of Summer Trump not only talks about himself in this manner he also courts the religious authorities to endorse and support his position and power.
The more things change the more they stay the same. I find it somewhat depressing that you could take someone from Sumer more than 5000 years ago and they'd instantly recognise Trump- how little we have progressed socially! }}}

  yep we still have the same aggressive little monkey brains, that's why we will always be Orcs and never Elves.

In a sense you've been beaten to it, Petty. This from over a year ago, though you've probably seen it.
(hope the comedy central in Europe problem is fixed!)

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ Ever since Trump first ran for President something has been nagging away at me about how he speaks and presents himself- something familiar. I've heard it before, somewhere. But could never place where, until now.

These are the words of one of the first known Kings of a civilised state- Ur in this case, circa 3000bc ish, all I have done is take their words, recorded on tablets in cuneiform, and changed names and the odd word.

"No one writes as well as me, no one tweets as greatly as Donald Trump."

("no one commands the words as well as me, no one writes the tablets as greatly as Shrupi.")

"I can make things grow. I am the best at it. At agriculture, I am the best. No one is better than Donald Trump at growing."

(I can make the crops grow and fields yield. At this I am best. At agriculture, I am the best. None is better than Shrupi at growing.)

"I bring peace to America, is there any greater at uniting the people than Trump?"

(Shrupi brings peace to the lands, is there any greater at uniting the people than Shrupi?)

Trump is basically using the same rhetorical devises used by the very first Kings of civilisation to promote themselves as more than ordinary (divine in fact in their case- not sure what Trump's excuse is!)! He is that basic. But like those early Kings of Summer Trump not only talks about himself in this manner he also courts the religious authorities to endorse and support his position and power.
The more things change the more they stay the same. I find it somewhat depressing that you could take someone from Sumer more than 5000 years ago and they'd instantly recognise Trump- how little we have progressed socially! }}}

Well that's a interesting point, but I was under the impression he speaks like that because he is a narcissistic, confused angry idiot...perhaps it's a bit of both...

I think he's working from a play book that's probably 100,000 years older than Shrupi.
The title was probably something like "How to be a Tribal Strong Man in 12 Easy Steps".
Ur was just the first civilization to publish it.

{{Trump say she wants  a less complex, time consuming and expensive tax system- so why is no one proposing the really, really, obvious? Take tax at source for wages, same as in the UK and many other countries- no working out and doing your own, no extra paperwork, no middlemen. You simplify almost every layer in one simple, easy decision. }}}

Unless you are self employed. This may make things easier for workers, but harder for business, which will make it a hard if not impossible sell to republicans. But we already do that in the form of with-holding, done so if someone doesn't file the government actually gets more than if they do!

That's pretty much how it works for wage earners here too, though you've still got to file to get some of your $$ back if you don't work the full year or you work two jobs, or you have a new baby to support, or your mom's moved in with you, or you're borrowing money to buy a house, etc. You don't HAVE to file for the return if you're willing to let the government keep the extra money they took from you in the interest of simplicity, but ....

So how does it work over there if you're a small farmer with income coming in intermittently as you crops sell, and major business expenses that can be 90% or more of your income? Sorting out the shoe boxes full of receipts each year for the tax man is one of the most crabbit inducing times of the year for me (that's the angst that Trump's tapping into).

Edit: crosspost w/ Halfy

{{Why harder for business?- doesn't seem hard for other countries businesses to do. Saves the individual worker a lot of time, effort and often cost of hiring an accountant ect. And if the concern is paperwork for businesses then universal healthcare would be the single biggest simplification for them, as it removes all health insurance nonsense and costs from the employer (something US companies have to bear as a burden no other 1st world countries companies have, putting them at a massive disadvantage before they even sell anything).

Dave as a UK farmer in the EU you would get grants and subsidies, in England from Westminster, in Scotland from the Scottish Government- cant claim to be an expert but here's a webpage might help - http://www.gov.scot/Topics/farmingrural/A-Z }}}

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{Dave as a UK farmer in the EU you would get grants and subsidies, in England from Westminster, in Scotland from the Scottish Government- cant claim to be an expert but here's a webpage might help -  }}}

There are grants here too through various agencies. Take the conservation districts for example. They'll pay up to 90% of costs (as a reimbursement) for approved projects that improve the quality of water leaving your farm. It's a great program, but you have to be inspected before hand, inspected on completion, and have kept all your receipts in order (otherwise many savvy farmers would just pocket the check and head for the local tavern ).  


So then come tax season, if you haven't kept your columns straight, that conservation grant will look like free income on your income tax form and you'll get taxed at the normal percentage as if you HAD just taken it to the pub .

Then there's another form to file an amendment to fix what you screwed up the first time, and so on, and some of my neighbors still refuse to own a computer so they do it all in pencil and then a final draft in ink goes in the envelope and into the mail box. And when they're finally done with it all they vote for tax simplification. Simple really!

{{Its hard for me to make a comparison in that respect Dave as I have never had to fill out a tax form in my life, or go through boxes of receipts to do so- I shall have to consult with Nagual as he did more of that sort of thing when he was self employed}}}

https://www.yahoo.com/news/art-deal-ghostwriter-predicts-president-131340365.html

The way things are going at the moment I definitely don't expect Trump to complete his entire term, but quitting within a year? (especially whilst the Mueller investigation is still ongoing) I don't see it. It seems to me Trump is increasingly isolated, angry, and out of hid depth in the White House (and possibly showing early signs of Alzheimers disease) and if he could think up a good excuse to walk away with at least some of his dignity intact I think he'd take it, but barely a year into his term in office (no matter how disastrous it seems to be going so far) is too early to say, I think impeachment in more likely (if he doesn't start a Nuclear War with Korea in the process...).

I don't know how much stock to put in that guy - his last set of interactions with Trump was decades ago, and in a very different context. Not that I disagree with much of what you say, but I'd take the ghostwriter more seriously if he had said his piece once or twice than shut up; instead he seems to be milking it as long as he can.

{{Trump lies about former Presidents not calling and writing to families of dead servicemen and women, whilst boasting (and remembering this is about people who gave their lives for their country!) about himself and how he always does call grieving families.
Next thing you know turns out, yes he does phone them up- then he says things to the widow of a fallen soldier, a widow carrying the dead soldiers child that the dead husband 'knew what he was singing up for'! What? How lacking in empathy, human decency, brains and common sense to you have to be to think that is an appropriate way to console a grieving person? Under any circumstances let alone when you are the President responsible for him being in a war. Seriously? What?! }}}

I have to admit being confused by this thing of the president calling fallen service members. What happens when there's actually action and hundreds falling? What's the protocols for deciding who gets the call?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/20/trump-mistakenly-links-uk-rise-with-spread-of-islamic-terror

More people died in the Las Vegas shooting alone, than have been killed by Terrorist incidents in the UK in the past decade.

Bit ironic coming from a man who donated money to Sinn Fein at the height of the troubles (at a time when Sinn Fein were still classed as a terror organisation and were known to be directly funding the IRA), an organisation who referred to him as their 'Trump card' and haven't disclosed whether he directly contributed money or not...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-attended-sinn-f-in-fundraiser-months-before-ira-attacked-london-a6767601.html

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/09/donald-trump-ireland-sinn-fein-terrorism

Trump do us all a favour and A) Shut your angry Alzheimer riddled face up before you p*ss off everyone left on the planet B) Stop staying up late watching Fox News and try and focus on the job you so desperately pretended to want.

Lecherous ignorant arseh*le

Well, to be fair to Trump you can't blame him for supporting a newly peaceful independence movement before they reconfirmed their true colors as a terrorist organization.