All New Who

{{{{Out of the 11th Doctor period you didn't watch Malick, and given how similar our choices are (theres only two episodes on there wouldn't make my list, I left a few off that on another day would make the list just for brevity, some of them are on your list) but out of 11's run I would highly recommend The Doctor's Wife, The Girl Who Waited and the God Complex in particular. If you have not seen those three then I think you will be in for a treat. }}}

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{{{Out of the 11th Doctor period you didn't watch Malick, and given how similar our choices are (theres only two episodes on there wouldn't make my list, I left a few off that on another day would make the list just for brevity, some of them are on your list) but out of 11's run I would highly recommend The Doctor's Wife, The Girl Who Waited and the God Complex in particular. If you have not seen those three then I think you will be in for a treat. }}}

Was the Doctor's Wife the tardis comes to life episode?, if so I did quite enjoy that one but it felt a bit jumbled up and rushed.

Not sure if I've seen the other two

I don't do streaming, I've been meaning to buy a hard copy boxset of New Who...butthe price is rather excessive, waiting for an Amazon sale...

{{Here you go- yeah TARDIS paced in a human body- the Gaiman episode}}

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{Here you go- yeah TARDIS paced in a human body- the Gaiman episode}}

Cheers, not sure how much data it would use up on my crappy wifi, but I'll bookmark this for possible later watching...

http://www.doctorwho.tv/whats-new/article/the-doctor-who-tv-movie-lands-on-bluray

I just go with what sticks in my imagination. lists are not any use to me because I cant remember the title/story. I remember the titles of most of the ones I like most.

Apparently they are filming in Vancouver in October (Vancouver previously doubled for San Francisco in the 1996 TV Movie...maybe they'll be revisiting it and McGann for the christmas special ), should be an interesting change of scenery.

(John Barrowman is a recurring character in Arrow which also films there I think...I read somewhere he has a clause in his contract allowing him to take time off if he's wanted again for Who )

{{{{David Suchet will be in the next series in the episode written by new to Who writer Mike Bartlett (Creator and writer of Doctor Foster). Suchet will play 'The Landlord' in what I think is episode 4 of the series. }}}

{{{Couple of nice vids and a fun Who panel with Karen Gillan and Jenna Coleman}}}

{{{The Doctors Childhood.

The Doctors childhood is one of those areas everyone tends to be interested in, but as the show is called Doctor Who, is necessarily vague (and if you include audio, novels and comics completely contradictory) so this is what we know about the Doctors childhood from the TV episodes alone.

As it turns out we actually, once you piece it all together, know quite a lot about his childhood. But what we have is a list of events, instances and people, the why to many of the events however remains a mystery. And the chronology is utterly uncertain in any cases.
Another complication is the difference between ageing and norms in Gallifreyeans and humans- the Doctor calls himself a kid when talking of himself at 90, some accounts put the Time Lord Academy period at centuries long. So when an event is described to have happened to a 'young Doctor' or when he was 'a kid' its hard to judge if that's nearer 10 or 100.
But here regardless of difficulties is what we know-


The Doctor was High-born in southern Gallifrey into a family of wealth and privilege and lived in a house perched halfway up the mountains (Robots of Sherwood/The Time Monster/Planet of the Spiders).

The Doctor was born under the sign of the 'crossed computers' which is also the symbol of the Gallifreyean Maternity Service (The Creature From the Pit).

He seems to have been a normal baby, and slept in a handmade cot (possibly a family heirloom) (A Good Man Goes to War).
He had both parents living (TV Movie) and claimed that his mother was half-human (Tv Movie)

As a 'little boy' the Doctor seems to have become somewhat obsessed with old Gallifreyean fairy-stories, especially the mythological horror tales concerning Fendahl and the Pantheon of Discord (Sarah Jane Adventures) and on tales of the Shakri (The Power of Three).

At some point in his early childhood he also witnessed an old lady, who had died on a hot day and had been covered with a veil, the heat attracting flies to the corpse, this image gave him nightmares for years to come (Heaven Sent).

This fear/interest in stories would come back into play when he was a little older and took to visiting an old hermit who lived in the mountains and who told him tales of the King Vampire. ( The Time Monster/State of Decay) We will come back to this hermit.

As a child the Doctor seems to have had only one close friend, the Master. They 'ran together' as kids (Death in Heaven) in the fields of red grass on the estate of the Masters father by Mount Perdition (End of Time).
As well as running through fields the Doctors childhood games included conkers (The Highlanders) and hopscotch (The Invasion of Time) as well as being fascinated by trains (The Evil of the Daleks) and he wanted to one day get to drive one (Black Orchid).

Its not clear when the following events occurred in relation to each other or in what order, but at the age of eight, along with other potential candidates the Doctor and the Master were put before the Untempered Schism (The Sound of Drums).
Its not known if that was part of the entry to the Academy, or if they were already accepted into the Academy when this took place. Or if it was an event unrelated to the Academy altogether.

Either prior to this event if the Doctor was in the Academy when presented to the Schism, or possibly after it if this event aged 8 was not related to the Academy, the Doctor snuck into the Cloisters and was confronted by the Cloister Wraiths who guard it. According to Ashildir he was 'barely more than a child', but rather than trap him there and incorporate him into the matrix as they would normally do, the Wraiths told him something, possibly related to the prophecy of the Hybrid. The young Doctor spent four days in the Cloisters with the Wraiths before the Wraiths showed him the only way out (Hell Bent) Whatever he was told it terrified the young Doctor driving hm 'completely mad' so that he was 'never right in the head' again. It was as a result of this event that he eventually ran away from Gallifrey, not out of boredom (War Games) but out of fear (Heaven Sent).

In may also be after this event that the Doctor returned to the Hermit in the mountains, as the 3rd Doctor says that he went to him on 'the blackest day of his life' and the hermit helped him see the good in the universe.

Also about this time the Doctor was sent to live in the barn located in the Dry Lands. This event took place before his entry in the Academy, but as he appears slightly older than the eight years when exposed to the schism it makes it more likely that the Untempered Schism ritual does not mark Academy entry.
The barn and house seems an odd place to send a 'High born Gallifreyean' child as its in the middle of nowhere and its inhabitants seem poor. Its not known if it was a school, a home for wayward children, a punishment or anything else about it save that there were other boys there, and that the young Doctor often went out to the barn at night so the other boys could not hear him cry himself to sleep (Listen) this would also seem to be the period of his childhood seen by Madame de Pompadour of 'such a lonely little boy. Afraid then and afraid now'.

It was also whilst there, sleeping out in the barn that he encountered Clara though he did not know who she was, thinking her later in life to have been a dream as she claimed at the time, she told him what the 12th Doctor had told another frightened child about the strength for good that can come from fear of the things that are bad or wrong. This made a great impression on the young Doctor and he would later repeat Clara's words, 'fear can make companions of us all' to his own first companions Ian and Barbera during their first adventure when their lives were threatened (Cave of Skulls).

At some point the Doctor entered the Academy and into the Prydoniann Chapter. Of which the Master was also a member as was the Rani. We know of two fo his tutors, Borusa (Deadly Assassin) and Azmael (The Twin Dilemna).
Whilst there he got as nickname, 'Theta Sigma', or 'Thete' for short (The Armageddon Factor/The Happiness Patrol).
His friendship, and a still healthy rivalry, with the Master continued, they built 'time flow analogues' to disrupt one another's experiments in class (The Time Monster).

At the age of 90, which the Doctor describes as 'still just a kid' he visited the Medusa Cascade (The Stolen Earth).

As a pupil the Doctor was not good, he only qualified on his exams to become a Time Lord on the second attempt scrapping by with 51% (The Ribos Opoeration).

And thats his childhood according to the tv sources.
Oh, but do remember rule one, the Doctor lies. And many of the sources for the Doctor's past come from the Doctor himself.

If there is any interest I will put together what we know about the years after he left the Academy up to his decision to leave Gallifrey and go on the run. Coverng his family life, what he may have run from what he ran away with and other key events mentioned and hinted at through the years.}}}

Oh yes please do!

{{I'll put something together then- cant let down the Admin afterall! }}}

Nice idea Petty.

I've not read the novel, but I did find Lungbarrow's explanations of his Origins quite interesting...

{{{I may after this do a version drawing on the non-TV sources. I too am fond of the Lungbarrow version of events, well the premise anyway if not all the details of the book.


The 1st Doctor's Life on Gallifrey

After leaving the Academy we do not know a great deal in detail about the Doctors life on Gallifrey.
We don't know what job he did, if he had one even, or what his specialties were. Although according to himself he was a 'pioneer among his people' (The Rescue).
Nor do we know where he lived. Whether at the family residence or elsewhere. Though he does seem to have a possible association with Gallifrey's second city Arcadia and was present in the defence at the fall of Arcadia during the Time War (Sound of Drums/Day of the Doctor).

We do know that he married and that he had children and grandchildren (Fear Her/The Doctor's Daughter/Listen/An Unearthly Child/Death in Heaven).
By the time of the 12 Doctor's incarnation Clara lists his family as 'missing'.

Among his grandchildren Susan would prove to be the most important and would leave Gallifrey with him.

It was not just the Doctor who married, his best friend the Master did too and had at least one child, a daughter. Upon the birth of which the Doctor gave his friend a  brooch made of Dark Star Alloy (The Witch's Familiar).

During his lifetime on Gallifrey miniscopes were a popular but unethical form of entertainment. They minituarised sentient beings snatched from their time into sealed environments, sometimes made to appear like their own natural planet, sometimes not. There creatures could be observed and studied by the Time Lords and put through tests without them breaching their Non-interference policy in galactic events.
The Doctor however successfully led a campaign to have these devices banned from use, earning him a reputation in the wider galaxy from species who had been victims of it (Carnival of Monsters).

We don't know why the Doctor choose to leave Gallifrey, or the circumstances under which it happened.

We do know certain facts however.

He was accompanied by his granddaughter Susan (An Unearthly Child).
He was advised by a copy of Clara who had entered his time stream during his 11th incarnation to steal the TARDIS he did (The Name of the Doctor).
He had in his possession the Hand of Omega (Remembrance of the Daleks).

Looking a little closer the reasons given for why he left are 'boredom' (War Games) fear of a prophecy from the Matrix conveyed to him by the Cloister Wraiths as a child (Heaven Sent) something to do with the Hand of Omega (Remembrance of the Daleks). Or a mix of all three.

For those who do not know the Hand of Omega is a stellar manipulator, it can literally manipulate the life-cycle of stars forwards or backwards in time. It also was sentient to a degree, similarly to the Moment, could levitate itself, could follow spoken orders and alter at least some matter. The Hand was created by Rassilon and Omega. Considered the founders of Time Lord society.

But there was always a rumoured third person involved, oddly the 7th Doctor recounts the events around the creation of the Hand and Time Lord Society as if he had been present at it, despite the event having happened long before his own time on Gallifrey (Remembrance of the Daleks).

Exactly why he had the Hand when he fled Gallifrey is unknown. In the end in his 7th incarnation used it as a trap for the Daleks, but that seems unlikely to have been the original reason he took it with him.

Nor is it known how it came to his possession or if it was stolen.

During Rassilons second incarnation from the Time War until his banishment by the 12th Doctor the Hand was worn often by him and he seems to have used it to meet out physical punishment, using it first against the Master (The End of Time) and then threatening to kill the 12th Doctor with it.

But it seems likely before Rassilons resurrection and the Time War it would have been kept locked up in the Omega Arsenal along with other dangerous ancient Gallifreyean tech like the Moment.

I would tentatively hazard that in his 1st incarnation on Gallifrey the Doctor was a social reformer, this may explain his sense of justice and his defence of those who cannot defend themselves against stronger powers, Clara says of him that he was 'moved to steal a TARDIS and fly among the stars, fighting the good fight" because he found "the plight of the oppressed and weak too much to bear." And we do know he campaigned against the unethical miniscopes.

It does not seem to much a stretch, given Time Lord history and later actions, that the Doctor took the Hand to prevent the Time lords using it for something he thought was unethical or unjust. It would also fit with his own claim to be a pioneer among his people and why he seems to have so strongly opposed the Gallifryean Non-interference policy. But that is purely speculation by me based on the facts we do know.

However it was he had the Hand of Omega with him when he left Gallifrey.

We also do not know why Susan went with him, or why no other members of his family did. Or even if they were still alive when he left, or what happened to them afterwards if they were.
All we do know is that he left with Susan. And that they left in a hurry and were directed by a Galifreyean incarnation of Clara to steal an ancient out of service TYPE-40 TARDIS with a broken navigation system. (Name of the Doctor) Although the TARDIS herself would claim to have chosen the Doctor and that was why her console was not locked allowing her to be stolen by him (The Doctor's Wife)

The doctor had his Pyrdonian Rights removed and he became a renegade on the run and exiled from his own people.
With the Doctor not quite knowing how to fly the TARDIS, and the TARDIS herself being a bit old and eccentric they bounced about Time and Space for a bit, visiting the planet of Dido (The Rescue) and witnessing the Long Song ceremony on Akhaten (The Rings of Akhaten)

At some point they encountered humans for the first time, and both seem to have taken an interest in them. They visited earth and met Gilbert and Sullivan, who presented the Doctor with an Ulster Coat (The Brink of Disaster).

There next visit to earth was during the reign of Henry the Eighth when the Doctor escaped from the Tower of London using the TARDIS (Strangers in Space) and they also ended up in World War 1 where they saw a zeppelin air raid (Planet of Giants).

They also visited the French Revolution, with Susan noting later that the 1960's era history books had it 'wrong' and some point in the UK after 15th February 1971 and decimalization (An Unearthly Child).

They eventually stopped traveling for a while whilst the Doctor tried to work out how to fly the TARDIS and make some rudimentary repairs, stopping in March, 1963, in a junkyard in Trotters Lane near Coal Hill School in London where the TARDIS chameleon circuit choose the outer shell of a common police call box as a disguise. Susan attended the school to learn more about earth and humans, and where she became particularly fond of 60's music and culture and wanted them to remain there rather than continuing their travels (An Unearthly Child).

Whilst at Trotters Lane the Doctor hid the Hand of Omega by burying it in a coffin in a nearby cemetery (Remembrance of the Daleks).

It is upon returning from having done this act one foggy evening that he encounters two of Susan's school teachers searching for her in the junkyard (An Unearthly Child) which is where we the viewers joined his story. }}}}

Good stuff Petty, its interesting.

{{{Glad you are enjoying it Figg. Here's part one of the non-canon version of his youth}}}

Ok this is the Doctors youth from a non-TV perspective drawing on novels, audio and comics.
Lots of things make this tricky; the fact they often contradict one another and the Tv show for a start.

But then there is the background to it all.

The dominant 'origin' story in novels is Lungbarrow but it delves into other never confirmed show concepts like the Other, which in turn has connections to the ideas of the production team at the time of the 7th Doctor, making it sort of hinted at in canon on screen but never really followed up on or explored again save in occasional lines (such as River's assertion that 11 is a 'god who insists on wearing the face of a twelve year old').

So first a little non-canon mythological Gallifryean background- Rassilon, Omega and the mysterious Other were responsible for creating Time Lord society as we know it and making possible the Eye of Harmony from which their civilisation has unlimited and perpetual power.

Omega was killed during the initial experiment, or thought so by everyone on Gallifrey at least and ended up trapped in an anti-matter universe where only his unconquerable will survived utterly alone for millenia.
Rassilon went power mad and became a cruel and powerful leader and the Other vanished and/or committed suicide seeing how things were going under Rassilon and suspecting him in the accident which cost Omega his life.

Now prior to the rule of Rassilon Gallifrey was ruled by an all female leadership who were very versed in the powers of the mind and weilded them ruthlessly, all the telepathic tech of the Time Lords has its roots in their work, they were eventually banished and the remnants of them became the Sisterhood of Kaan. But their last leader before she was ousted from Gallifrey cursed the people to infertility. Following which Time Lords could not breed naturally.


Youth and Academy years- non-canon sources


This is where the genetic looms come in, which in Lungbarrow are described as the means by which new Time-Lords are 'born' from a base of combining DNA from which a new life is then 'woven' on the loom.

The Doctor however was not the product of his parents DNA but rather is the reincarnation of the Other and was loomed as a fully grown adult (and with a belly button which no loomed Gallifreyean should have). (Lungbarrow)

His home residence and other details remain largely the same as in the tv show but we get more details from other sources.

He had at least one brother, Irving (Tears of the Oracle).
He was a lonely and depressed child who did not get on with his family and was bullied by his many cousins and given cruel nicknames teasing him about having a belly button (Lungbarrow).
He had at least two imaginary friends, Blinker (The Abandoned) and Mandrake (The Widow's Assassin).

As a young child a 'time-tot' he used to play hide and seek with the Rani. He held the time-tot hide and seek championship for forty-two years in a row (Weapons of Past Destruction).

Further to him being scared and drawn to old fairy tales and stories his mother told him the tale of Grandfather Paradox, which scared him so much he thought the creature was hiding under his bed at night. (The Gallifrey Chronicles)

His friendship with the Master remains in non-canon sources too. The Master taught the Doctor hypnotism, with the Doctor unhypnotising people the Master hypnotised for fun. (The Dark Path) They also had fun riding skimmers. (The Paradise of Death)

Things did do not go well with the Master however when the Doctor, trying to save the Master from a bully named Torvic killed Torvic. The Doctor pleaded with the ancient being known as Death to take away his guilt, Death did so by placing it instead upon the Master who believed he had now killed the bully. The guilt of which was the root of the Masters later flaws. (The Master) This of course contradicts the Sound of Drums.

Bullies were a problem throughout the Doctors young life, running into another called Anzor when he began school. (Mission to Magnus)

The Doctor was forty-five when he left the Gallifreyan equivalent of primary school. (Shroud of Sorrow)

He was at the Academy for 'centuries' (Mortal Beloved) and immediately got a reputation as a troublemaker by trapping one of his teachers in a timeloop for a day (Island of Death) and 'mucking about' with space-time portals (Made of Steel).
The Doctor was in a gang of sorts at the Academy, with ten members, known as Deca of which the Master and the Rani were also members. (Divided Loyalties)

The Doctor was known for skipping class to learn to juggle and to practice the yo-yo (Match of the Day).
He and the Master also joined the Gallifrey Academy Hot Five band, with the Doctor playing lead perigosto, and the Master on drums. (Deadly Reunion) ('He really knows how to put a band together'- Madame Vastra on the Doctor, Deep Breath)

Like most students they also used to go to parties and get drunk, such as the one of the moon of Korpal (Spiral Scratch).
He was also known for riding Vortisuars bareback at the Academy, which may not have been entirely within the rules. (Storm Warning)

He got himself into more serious trouble when he created a bacteria which caused a lot of trouble, the Academy covered up the ensuing scandal (Planet of the Rani) but shortly afterwards the Doctor was expelled anyway when he encountered the Celestial Toymaker and two of his fellow student were killed, as a result the Doctor spent the next five hundred years relegated to traffic control (Divided Loyalties).

He returned to the Academy but failed to attend his time-travel proficiency lessons, making him unqualified to pilot a TARDIS (Festival of Death).
He also failed practical theology, but got a commendation for landscape gardening (All-consuming Fire) but scored poorly in Time Lord philosophy (Infinite Requiem)

The Doctor and the Master, still best friends took a trip into Gallifreys history in search of an ancient dark mass created by the Old Ones of the Higher Dimensions long ago. The Doctor was horrified by what they found but the Master was fascinated (Tomb of Valdemar).

Later in their Academical careers the Time Lords found themselves involved in a cover up for which they eventually turned to the Doctor and the Master for help, although they came up with a solution the Doctor refused to put his name to the plan considering it all unethical. When the plan failed anyway the Time Lords had to cover up the cover up. (Harvest of Time)

Eventually the Doctor passed his Higher-Dimensional Physics degree and graduated as a Time-Lord (The Friendly Place).
His low pass mark, the lowest possible, was deliberate on his part in order not to draw undue attention to himself, as he had by this time already decided to leave Gallifrey (Tears of the Oracle)



Thanks to the TARDIS wiki for the sources for this.

Next up, part two, the even more contradictory bit that will even contradict all the bits in part one, especially those bits which already contradict each other!}}}

I love how contradictory Who can be at times (it is a time travel show after all, trying to organise things into one timeline is part of the fun).

I really wish BF would adapt Lungbarrow, the author was asked but apparently isn't too keen on the idea...

When it comes to continuity and canon, I like this quote from the 2005 BBC Eighth Doctor Adventure novel, The Gallifrey Chronicles by Lance Parkin:

"Sherlock Holmes solved the case before I could, as I recall."
"Sherlock Holmes is a fictional Character," Trix pointed out.
The Doctor grinned. "My dear, one of the things you'll learn is that it's all real. Every word of every novel is real, every frame of every movie, every panel of every comic strip."
"But that's just not possible. I mean some books contradict other ones and-"
The Doctor was ignoring her.

Phillip Sandifer's reviews and musings on Who are well worth reading if you've got the time:

http://www.eruditorumpress.com/blog/author/phil/tardis-eruditorum/

{{{Read that guys piece on Dalek Invasion of Earth, found it interesting so Ive bookmarked the rest for later, thanks Malick}}}

Pettytyrant101 wrote:

Definitely getting that, the first two sets were excellent, the War Doctor has only had eight official stories so far, but he's already working his way up my list of favorites.

{{{i havent got any of them yet, but I am planning to as soon as possible- really looking forward to them.

Couple fan vids caught my eye.}}