Do you really believe this is the end of Cinematic Middle Earth for the immediate future?

Mrs Figg wrote:the man from Del monte said NO!

bungobaggins wrote:Something something Silmarillion movies something something.

Eldorion wrote:I would like this to be the end for the near future, before the brand gets stretched out and degraded past the point of recognition,  but I expect that someone at WB will at least try. I don't think PJ will be involved though.

Sinister71 wrote:Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing them reboot the franchise with a new director, one who cares about Tolkien's legacy, and separate screenwriters from the director. Coming up with a cohesive script first. then having a set of 8 films in all.

Starting at the Hobbit, making it 2 films. Still including the White council in a bit more detail, and having more than just 4 members. Possibly including the rangers of the north. Keeping the Necromancer parts but keeping everything vague and shrouded in mystery. Using a hooded robed figure (almost as if in burlap) with rotted  areas showing a rusted armor reminiscent of Sauron but never fully revealing it. Also maybe showing a gauntlet of a hand maybe missing a few fingers. Lots of dirt as if from a grave but never showing the figure having been buried.just lots of hints of death. Other than that keep the figure a mystery. Also have him basically flee before the White council, having them show up to an empty fortress. Kind of an anticlimactic climax. The ring would be left as a simple ring but the further into the hobbit you got the more you would make its use seem subtlely more sinister but not really revealing anything too obvious. The rest of the Hobbit films would follow as closely as possible to the book only changing the tone to the more mature feel of LOTR. (I did agree with Jackson making Thorin arrive late at Baggend, I did agree with all the dwarfs charging in to save Bilbo from the trolls, inclusion of the stone giants but only in the background as a threat with thrown rocks, show Radagast in a more serious manner) other than that i would stay close to the book. No need for any made up characters or subplots. Legolas would get maybe 15 minutes of screen time through the whole of the Hobbit portion of the films. And I would probably kill more than just Thorin, Kili and Fili. I would probably kill 6 or 7 of the original 13. I would also include injuries making the journey seem more dangerous to the dwarfs. Not to mention giving them all dwarfly beards

Then follow up each of the LOTR books with 2 films each. FOTR parts 1 and 2, TTT parts 1 and 2,and ROTK parts 1 and 2. Leaving in as much detail as possible.Including the old Forest, Barrow Wights, Tom Bombadil

I think once it were done an 8 film set of the Hobbit through LOTR would be a huge success partially due to Peter Jackson's version but because this time around a cohesive story from beginning to end without having to alter details or rehash things multiple times.

Maybe its just wishful thinking that a live action version can be done well in my lifetime.

Whilst I dread to think how much worse/worrying the films would be if we were in charge, I'm not really familiar enough with them to comment in depth, and this will probably read like a crazy rant, there are a few things I would have changed/preferred/imagined differently If I had the money to play around with...I think, the reality is I'd probably end up firing myself and get someone better to do the job...

(This is assuming The Hobbit films came first so I'd obviously need much more backstory that needed to be explained early on, I would set in in the universe of LOTR etc, but primarily retain the fairytale vibe the book was intended to give, and leave much to the LOTR follow up to explain properly)

If it were live action I'd shoot it on film, with a greater reliance on in camera FX, and less CGI, I'm actually convinced it could still work as trilogy...just with less filler, maybe 3 135 minute films (roughly 2/3 of which covering the actual book, the rest being appendices/bookend stuff-that way it would easier to chop this stuff out, I could make more money by selling a shorter version to the purists!!) instead of 3 3 hour films...

The Talking Purse would be in, but I wouldn't have it be the cause of the Dwarves capture, rather I'd go along PJ's lines, but have Bilbo find it in the trolls hoard, as a reference for book fans-much like the way the robot owl was handled in the Clash Of The Titans remake.

That said I'd probably do a 6 or 7 part animated mini series, I love the graphic novel, and Old fashioned hand drawn animation could do wonders for Tolkien, it would suit the fairytale vibe of the book better, and it's a hell of lot cheaper and easier to imagine fantasy works in.

I agree about the War of the Dwarves and Orcs-I'd keep Dain as the Killer of Azog and introduce him early on, BUT I wouldn't explain the war in one short flashback, I'd keep it gradually unfolding in the films, running almost in parallel with Thorin's descent into madness-making his actions more understandable with fewer cliched big hero moments, having the grim war scenes interspersed with the lighter early chapters of the book, could make things seem a bit unbalanced admittedly, but I think it would work better than simply extended every fight in the book into a random Benny Hill type chase...

I was really intrigued by PJ's claim of DOS as a story of 'Fathers and Sons' but other than Bard and Bain I didn't see much evidence (haven't seen the EE) so for me I'd ramp this up from the start-I always pictured Thorin as a 'wounded lion' not a warrior in his prime, but a furious broken down old wreck his arrogance yet underlying courtesy and false dignity, the result of long, hard years as the last ever older son of a royal line.

I'd cast Ian Mcshane as the primary Thorin and definitely go the older Thorin route of the book, it's more interesting to me, and would reinforce the long odds and sacrifice Thorin had to make. But I'd also have a younger actor playing him in framing sequences, that way we get the young hero in, but also make Older Thorin more understandable and give him more screentime-without stealing from Bilbo's own actions and dialogue in the book.

The Stone Gaints would be seen as mysterious shapes in the distance, the audience never quite sure of what they had seen, I'd be tempted to throw in a reference to http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Tarlang's_Neck


No Ringwraiths!

No Tauriel, or at least not such a modern, overly prominent 'Female Energy Perfect Women can be kick ass warriors too!' version.

Very little Legolas, as it is a reboot I'd cast an slighty older actor in the role, he'd be a slighty mysterious dude with a few lines and actions in the background, but wouldn't even have a credited voice actor.

We would see the White Council's attack on Dol Guldor (Saruman, Cirdan, Glorfindel and a normal not high on his own armpit mushrooms Radagast would feature, as a tertiary side plot, but I'd save alot of it (and more of Thorin's backstory) for a hypothetical follow up adaptation of LOTR, to be told in flashbacks in Minas Tirith/the characters introductions in LOTR the audience would then get a 'Hey, I think I saw that guy briefly in the earlier films...' moment

Talking animals, lots of them, if only to get a few more grumbles out of Thorin.

I'd be tempted to explain a little more about the swords of Gondolin and the 'Halls of Waiting' but again it it would depend on the final edit...

Bard would be an Older man in his Forties, we would get a coda or small subplot about him marrying a woman from Laketown in one of the later episodes.

I'd have a few tertiary characters in Rivendell, Laketown etc to fill out the locations a bit more, and give a bit of character to the place, but none would have character arcs, we would see the entire story usually from Bilbo (occasionally Thorin's) point of view, or rather, the way he understands and hears things-the sideplots would mainly be narrated by Bilbo or overheard in conversation with others.

I'd make sure the Dwarves looked Dwarvish! Longbeards for the Longbeards (yeah, I know that's geeky) I wouldn't actually bother trying to establish all of them as main characters, but much like PJ only have a front five or six, I'd relegate the others to background filler for comedy effect-in the book Bilbo often confuses them, and the narrator gives the impression they are badly organised bunch at the best of times, so I'd have Bilbo and the 'filler' get confused and annoyed with each other as a subtle piece of background humour, the audience would almost get annoyed at their incompetence, until they surprise us in Battle.

-At it's heart The Hobbit is quite a silly illogical book in places with a rather bipolar tone...I'd embrace this...

I'd be tempted to kill of more than three of the Dwarves, maybe one of the filler early on as a Cliff Hanger-as long as Fili and Kili die by Thorin's side that's all that really matters to me, most of the Dwarves aren't really characters in the book or film so I never got attached to them anyway.

Less of a focus on Dol Guldor, it's called The Hobbit for a reason, we should only know what we need to know about The Necromancer, again as with the Dwarves history, I'd place lesser emphasis on here and now, but a greater emphasis on scale and backstory-I really like the idea of the Quest For Erebor being decades in the planning, but I'd want things to remain a little mysterious

I'd keep in as much of the songs and riddles as Possible

Bolg would Take Azog's place chasing the company, it is a good idea to create tension and gives a break from repetitive walking scenes, but I'd introduce it much later-say when the Dwarves are already over the mountains, maybe Bolg hears of the Goblin King's death and puts two and two together and assumes it's Thorin.

I'd keep as close to the book as possible, and embrace it's episodic nature, not trying to cram in extended cliff hangers or false ringing character arcs.

Beorn's enchartment and backstory would only be hinted at.

Smaug would be smaller, red as in the book, and wouldn't be hinted to be in League with Sauron-yet, we would learn in the LOTR follow up the hows and whys.

I would use the appendices material quite alot, but keep some mysteries mysterious-this story is laying the groundwork, not ramming down plot after plot down the audiences throat, I also wouldn't make false claims or spout nonsense about Tolkien's rewrite of the hobbit being as drastic and all powerful as some seem to think...



Probably a few other things as well.

That would be terrible to watch wouldn't it!

malickfan wrote:

Sinister71 wrote:Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing them reboot the franchise with a new director, one who cares about Tolkien's legacy, and separate screenwriters from the director. Coming up with a cohesive script first. then having a set of 8 films in all.

Starting at the Hobbit, making it 2 films. Still including the White council in a bit more detail, and having more than just 4 members. Possibly including the rangers of the north. Keeping the Necromancer parts but keeping everything vague and shrouded in mystery. Using a hooded robed figure (almost as if in burlap) with rotted  areas showing a rusted armor reminiscent of Sauron but never fully revealing it. Also maybe showing a gauntlet of a hand maybe missing a few fingers. Lots of dirt as if from a grave but never showing the figure having been buried.just lots of hints of death. Other than that keep the figure a mystery. Also have him basically flee before the White council, having them show up to an empty fortress. Kind of an anticlimactic climax. The ring would be left as a simple ring but the further into the hobbit you got the more you would make its use seem subtlely more sinister but not really revealing anything too obvious. The rest of the Hobbit films would follow as closely as possible to the book only changing the tone to the more mature feel of LOTR. (I did agree with Jackson making Thorin arrive late at Baggend, I did agree with all the dwarfs charging in to save Bilbo from the trolls, inclusion of the stone giants but only in the background as a threat with thrown rocks, show Radagast in a more serious manner) other than that i would stay close to the book. No need for any made up characters or subplots. Legolas would get maybe 15 minutes of screen time through the whole of the Hobbit portion of the films. And I would probably kill more than just Thorin, Kili and Fili. I would probably kill 6 or 7 of the original 13. I would also include injuries making the journey seem more dangerous to the dwarfs. Not to mention giving them all dwarfly beards

Then follow up each of the LOTR books with 2 films each. FOTR parts 1 and 2, TTT parts 1 and 2,and ROTK parts 1 and 2. Leaving in as much detail as possible.Including the old Forest, Barrow Wights, Tom Bombadil

I think once it were done an 8 film set of the Hobbit through LOTR would be a huge success partially due to Peter Jackson's version but because this time around a cohesive story from beginning to end without having to alter details or rehash things multiple times.

Maybe its just wishful thinking that a live action version can be done well in my lifetime.

Sounds similar to what I posted the other week:

Whilst I dread to think how much worse/worrying the films would be if we were in charge, I'm not really familiar enough with them to comment in depth, and this will probably read like a crazy rant, there are a few things I would have changed/preferred/imagined differently If I had the money to play around with...I think, the reality is I'd probably end up firing myself and get someone better to do the job...

(This is assuming The Hobbit films came first so I'd obviously need much more backstory that needed to be explained early on, I would set in in the universe of LOTR etc, but primarily retain the fairytale vibe the book was intended to give, and leave much to the LOTR follow up to explain properly)

If it were live action I'd shoot it on film, with a greater reliance on in camera FX, and less CGI, I'm actually convinced it could still work as trilogy...just with less filler, maybe 3 135 minute films (roughly 2/3 of which covering the actual book, the rest being appendices/bookend stuff-that way it would easier to chop this stuff out, I could make more money by selling a shorter version to the purists!!) instead of 3 3 hour films...

The Talking Purse would be in, but I wouldn't have it be the cause of the Dwarves capture, rather I'd go along PJ's lines, but have Bilbo find it in the trolls hoard, as a reference for book fans-much like the way the robot owl was handled in the Clash Of The Titans remake.

That said I'd probably  do a 6 or 7 part animated mini series, I love the graphic novel, and Old fashioned hand drawn animation could do wonders for Tolkien, it would suit the fairytale vibe of the book better, and it's a hell of lot cheaper and easier to imagine fantasy works in.

I agree about the War of the Dwarves and Orcs-I'd keep Dain as the Killer of Azog and introduce him early on, BUT I wouldn't explain the war in one short flashback, I'd keep it gradually unfolding in the films, running almost in parallel with Thorin's descent into madness-making his actions more understandable with fewer cliched big hero moments, having the grim war scenes interspersed with the lighter early chapters of the book, could make things seem a bit unbalanced admittedly, but I think it would work better than simply extended every fight in the book into a random Benny Hill type chase...

I was really intrigued by PJ's claim of DOS as a story of 'Fathers and Sons' but other than Bard and Bain I didn't see much evidence (haven't seen the EE) so for me I'd ramp this up from the start-I always pictured Thorin as a 'wounded lion' not a warrior in his prime, but a furious broken down old wreck his arrogance yet underlying courtesy and false dignity, the result of long, hard years as the last ever older son of a royal line.

I'd cast Ian Mcshane as the primary Thorin and definitely go the older Thorin route of the book, it's more interesting to me, and would reinforce the long odds and sacrifice Thorin had to make. But I'd also have a younger actor playing him in framing sequences, that way we get the young hero in, but also make Older Thorin more understandable and give him more screentime-without stealing from Bilbo's own actions and dialogue in the book.

The Stone Gaints would be seen as mysterious shapes in the distance, the audience never quite sure of what they had seen, I'd be tempted to throw in a reference to  http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Tarlang's_Neck


No Ringwraiths!

No Tauriel, or at least not such a modern, overly prominent 'Female Energy Perfect Women can be kick ass warriors too!' version.

Very little Legolas, as it is a reboot I'd cast an slighty older actor in the role, he'd be a slighty mysterious dude with a few lines and actions in the background, but wouldn't even have a credited voice actor.

We would see the White Council's attack on Dol Guldor (Saruman, Cirdan, Glorfindel and a normal not high on his own armpit mushrooms Radagast would feature, as a tertiary side plot, but I'd save alot of it (and more of Thorin's backstory) for a hypothetical follow up adaptation of LOTR, to be told in flashbacks in Minas Tirith/the characters introductions in LOTR the audience would then get a 'Hey, I think I saw that guy briefly in the earlier films...' moment

Talking animals, lots of them, if only to get a few more grumbles out of Thorin.

I'd be tempted to explain a little more about the swords of Gondolin and the 'Halls of Waiting' but again it it would depend on the final edit...

Bard would be an Older man in his Forties, we would get a coda or small subplot about him marrying a woman from Laketown in one of the later episodes.

I'd have a few tertiary characters in Rivendell, Laketown etc to fill out the locations a bit more, and give a bit of character to the place, but none would have character arcs, we would see the entire story usually from Bilbo (occasionally Thorin's) point of view, or rather, the way he understands and hears things-the sideplots would mainly be narrated by Bilbo or overheard in conversation with others.

I'd make sure the Dwarves looked Dwarvish! Longbeards for the Longbeards (yeah, I know that's geeky) I wouldn't actually bother trying to establish all of them as main characters, but much like PJ only have a front five or six, I'd relegate the others to background filler for comedy effect-in the book Bilbo often confuses them, and the narrator gives the impression they are badly organised bunch at the best of times, so I'd have Bilbo and the 'filler' get confused and annoyed with each other as a subtle piece of background humour, the audience would almost get annoyed at their incompetence, until they surprise us in Battle.

-At it's heart The Hobbit is quite a silly illogical book in places with a rather bipolar tone...I'd embrace this...

I'd be tempted to kill of more than three of the Dwarves, maybe one of the filler early on as a Cliff Hanger-as long as Fili and Kili die by Thorin's side that's all that really matters to me, most of the Dwarves aren't really characters in the book or film so I never got attached to them anyway.

Less of a focus on Dol Guldor, it's called The Hobbit for a reason, we should only know what we need to know about The Necromancer, again as with the Dwarves history, I'd place lesser emphasis on here and now, but a greater emphasis on scale and backstory-I really like the idea of the Quest For Erebor being decades in the planning, but I'd want things to remain a little mysterious

I'd keep in as much of the songs and riddles as Possible

Bolg would Take Azog's place chasing the company, it is a good idea to create tension and gives a break from repetitive walking scenes, but I'd introduce it much later-say when the Dwarves are already over the mountains, maybe Bolg hears of the Goblin King's death and puts two and two together and assumes it's Thorin.

I'd keep as close to the book as possible, and embrace it's episodic nature, not trying to cram in extended cliff hangers or false ringing character arcs.

Beorn's enchartment and backstory would only be hinted at.

Smaug would be smaller, red as in the book, and wouldn't be hinted to be in League with Sauron-yet, we would learn in the LOTR follow up the hows and whys.

I would use the appendices material quite alot, but keep some mysteries mysterious-this story is laying the groundwork, not ramming down plot after plot down the audiences throat, I also wouldn't make false claims or spout nonsense about Tolkien's rewrite of the hobbit being as drastic and all powerful as some seem to think...



Probably a few other things as well.

That would be terrible to watch wouldn't it!

Sinister71 wrote:


great minds think alike ... hell we can co write it and get Eldo or petty to direct it.   I'm not much of a creative person, more a 'This is where you are going wrong, here are a few suggestions' person, that said this could be a fun Forum project, I've seen numerous fan scripts on Tolkien forums, it could be fun I suppose if anyone is up for it...  I truly believe the people on this forum could draw up a better script than Jackson did keeping as much source material in the script while making it action packed and entertaining . Only issue I could see would be financingFlash animation is reasonably cheap..., One can dream can't he

Mrs Figg wrote:I want to be Galadriel. I can slow-mo.

malickfan wrote:

Sinister71 wrote:


great minds think alike ... hell we can co write it and get Eldo or petty to direct it.   I'm not much of a creative person, more a 'This is where you are going wrong, here are a few suggestions' person, that said this could be a fun Forum project, I've seen numerous fan scripts on Tolkien forums, it could be fun I suppose if anyone is up for it...  I truly believe the people on this forum could draw up a better script than Jackson did keeping as much source material in the script while making it action packed and entertaining       . Only issue I could see would be financingFlash animation is reasonably cheap..., One can dream can't he

Sinister71 wrote:
I am overly creative... still working on my novel which has been slow going latelyDidn't know you were writing a novel   What's it about?. But something like the Hobbit, I think I could nail a script for it. I'm sure I would have to ramp up some action in a few places for a more mass appealWill you keep Sebastian?. But overall I think I could take that historical realism that Jackson initially used on his LOTR films while taking the source material and make it entertaining while still sticking to the story Tolkien toldInteresting...the problem you'd face with this in tonal-would you treat it as a reboot with The Hobbit largely standing alone as a faiyrtale, and bring the backstory in with LOTR? Or would you start off with a flashback like Jackson to establish the world? It would be rather hard to  mesh the worlds of the books, unless you did slowly from the beginning  . it would lose some of the more juvenile humor for a darker more mature tone but could work rather well. And definitely be able to do it in a two film structureI've always felt TH would work better as a miniseries, it's episodic by nature, and alot of the charm of the book is based on mood and dialogue not action and climaxes. Making it work perfectly. 3 films is just over kill and makes the BO5A seem more important than it was in middle earth historyYou could always leave some of the events/sideplots of TH for flashbacks in Minas Tirith kinda like what Tolkien would have done if he'd included 'The Quest For Erebor' in ROTK.

Mrs Figg wrote:well he's stiff enough for the job.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Im more worried my kilts been flapping in the wind again!

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Gets very breezy round my barrel (I should probably stop standing over the air vent)

malickfan wrote:
Didn't know you were writing a novel   What's it about?
Will you keep Sebastian?.
Interesting...the problem you'd face with this in tonal-would you treat it as a reboot with The Hobbit largely standing alone as a faiyrtale, and bring the backstory in with LOTR? Or would you start off with a flashback like Jackson to establish the world? It would be rather hard to  mesh the worlds of the books, unless you did slowly from the beginning  .
I've always felt TH would work better as a miniseries, it's episodic by nature, and alot of the charm of the book is based on mood and dialogue not action and climaxes.
You could always leave some of the events/sideplots of TH for flashbacks in Minas Tirith kinda like what Tolkien would have done if he'd included 'The Quest For Erebor' in ROTK.