Favorite Anime

Haha, yeah, I guess it's just a pet peeve of mine

I did think the whole energy bending thing came a bit out of the blue, with Aang not even realizing the implications of what the lionturtle had said until the very end and you not getting the background on the whole lionturtle thing before you were in the middle of Legend of Korra, but I do think they had it planned all along. Remember Aang reading about the lionturtles in the spirit library. The execution might not have been perfect though, I can agree with that. And the concept in itself. Although I have less of a problem with the Avatar being able to take someones bending power away, then calling it energy bending and making it this whole fifth element thing. I don't know..

Was that your problem with it.. or?

"Bear? What do you mean bear?"

That scene always gets a chuckle from me.

Bluebottle wrote:I did think the whole energy bending thing came a bit out of the blue, with Aang not even realizing the implications of what the lionturtle had said until the very end and you not getting the background on the whole lionturtle thing before you were in the middle of Legend of Korra, but I do think they had it planned all along. Remember Aang reading about the lionturtles in the spirit library. The execution might not have been perfect though, I can agree with that. And the concept in itself. Although I have less of a problem with the Avatar being able to take someones bending power away, then calling it energy bending and making it this whole fifth element thing. I don't know..

Was that your problem with it.. or?

Yeah, I don't care for new powers being introduced at the eleventh hour. The lion turtle itself was pretty bizarre too and I don't consider a couple background statues or a one-liner about an illustration in a scroll to really be foreshadowing. Not that you said it was, but I've had people try to convince me of this. According to Bryan Konietzko in The Art of the Animated Series (which is a wonderful book that I recommend to every Avatar fan), they had the idea of Aang taking Ozai's bending away early on but had no mechanism for it until they were wrote the finale. I think it's actually a pretty powerful scene and I'm glad they didn't waste a lot of time on technobabble-esque explanations for it. I do recognize that if they tried too hard to establish it ahead of the finale it would have ruined the moral dilemma, which was an important process for Aang to go through.

I know a couple people on other forums who hate the finale because Aang was only able to go into the Avatar state because his back hit a rock in the right place to unlock the pressure point. However, I think the important thing about the finale is that Aang was willing to face Ozai and brought himself to the final point. It's not quite eucatastrophe -- I'm more inclined to think the rock was a shortcut rather than a meaningful philosophical point -- but as with Frodo, Aang did the hard work to get to that final stage.

Ah, wasn't aware of that. In that context though I think telling it from Aangs point of view was pretty much the best way they could have handled it. To have the viewer get the information and make the discovery at the same time he does. How very Tolkien of them, really.

When it was conceived at such a late date that obviously adds some problems, but I don't really have any major problems with the solution and execution. Te important art was showing Aangs ethical dilemma, choosing not to kill Osai with the lightning, finally finding a solution to end the war without himself killing anyone. Adhering to his ethics and morals, even when it might have meant defeat. I think that was what they were trying to get across. That Aang couldn't win by turning himself into his enemy. There was a reason he was fighting the Firenation. All these things really resonated with me anyway.

But I can certainly see your problems with it, and you have given me some new perspectives to ponder.

Eldorion wrote:That scene always gets a chuckle from me.

The context I found it in, if anything makes it even better.

http://the-last-punbender.tumblr.com/post/121964879944/hellsbells9-jackie-chaos-bunny

Oh, and I thought you might like this considering your.. avatar.

I thought this was really cool.

I that comic.  JinXZuko is my OTP.

BTW, if you're interested in the martial arts or any other behind-the-scenes stuff with Avatar, this documentary is a really great introduction to a lot of it.

Glad to see official confirmation of what we all knew was truth.

Although I think the writers would balk as much at that as Zutara.

Thanks for posting that video, by the way. That was pretty cool. It's odd to think how basic the foundation blocks they built the show on were, and the amount of detail they actually went into when they were actually doing it. I don't know how much I want to delve into all the making of stuff though, as I'm not sure knowing stuff like that they came up with the energy bending at a very late stage aids much in the viewing process. I don't know, I might just feel a bit protective of the experience, as I enjoyed it so much. I was trying to explain it to my brother earlier and I said something like, it's like the Simpsons or Southpark, and might just be funnier, just in an epic fantasy story and setting. I don't know if that's all that good a description, it's a bit like Sopranos in Middle Earth, but it does hint at their mixture of US and Asian cartoon influences.

I thought "The Sopranos in Middle-earth" was the pitch for Game of Thrones? Anyway, I can relate to the not wanting to get too deep into the behind-the-scenes stuff.  I've been in the ATLA fandom long enough that I've gone through the cycle of criticism and made my peace with the various imperfections and flaws that are there, but it can definitely be more fun to just relax and enjoy a show a lot of the time.  For my part, though, I think I've become confident enough in my own tastes to let myself enjoy things regardless if I found them to be enjoyable, regardless of their "objective" merits.  But I think Avatar holds up under scrutiny.  Just to pick one relevant example, it was sketched out from the beginning in far more detail than most TV shows are, even ones that attempt series-spanning arcs. But I don't want to press any of the analysis stuff on you if you're feeling more like Gandalf: "he that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom".

Bluebottle wrote: Although I think the writers would balk as much at that as Zutara.

I dunno man, I think Tyzula is one of the strongest ships that isn't explicitly stated to be a thing in the show itself.

Yeah, I was mostly thinking of the "..will have a string of unhealthy relationships." comment. But, who knows, maybe they were just what each other needed.

Eldorion wrote:Anyway, I can relate to the not wanting to get too deep into the behind-the-scenes stuff.  I've been in the ATLA fandom long enough that I've gone through the cycle of criticism and made my peace with the various imperfections and flaws that are there, but it can definitely be more fun to just relax and enjoy a show a lot of the time.  For my part, though, I think I've become confident enough in my own tastes to let myself enjoy things regardless if I found them to be enjoyable, regardless of their "objective" merits.  But I think Avatar holds up under scrutiny.  Just to pick one relevant example, it was sketched out from the beginning in far more detail than most TV shows are, even ones that attempt series-spanning arcs.  But I don't want to press any of the analysis stuff on you if you're feeling more like Gandalf: "he that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom".

Aaaah. You can't say stuff like that. I'm the worlds most indecisive person. Now I'll just feel sorry for all the stuff I'm missing out on.

Nah, I mostly think it's interesting, so don't hold back on my account. I was mostly thinking of your "death of the author" comment and how it's probably best to seperate the actual artistic creation and it's creation.

I do find all the stuff about how cohesively they mapped out the story really interesting. It really shows in the finished article. As you can somehow follow these red lines through all these seemingly disparate episodes.

Comparing it with something as messily written as Game of Thrones just gives me a headache. I thik Avatars epic fantasy mantle is pretty safe for the time being. And that's quite the achievement for what on it's surface is just a goofy cartoon show.

Eldorion wrote:I thought "The Sopranos in Middle-earth" was the pitch for Game of Thrones?

Yeah, although even David Benioff admitted the silliness of it after the show was picked up. It was a pitch to sell the idea to HBO simply.

Although, Azula certainly has a certain something.

What's an anime available on Netflix that you guys would recommend?

I'm not sure what's on netflix, but Eldo did a great post recommending some different anime stuff earlier.

Eldorion wrote:

Bluebottle wrote:I've probably seen some not knowing it was anime. Though perhaps I should. Would you like to recommend something?

Well, what I recommend really depends on what people's tastes are.  Since you like fantasy, I'd say that the movie Princess Mononoke is probably a good place to start.  It was directed by Hayao Miyazaki, who is one of the few anime directors to achieve recognition and acclaim in the west, and it tells a historical fantasy story in a setting based on medieval Japan.  Spirited Away from the same director is also good, and is frequently compared to Alice in Wonderland, being more of a fairy tale sort of movie.  On the sci-fi front, Akira and Ghost in the Shell are both cyberpunk classics (the latter in particular was one of the main influences on The Matrix), though I think both are a tad bit overrated.  I might suggest Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade, an alternate history sci-fi action film, if you don't mind grimdark too much.  On the other end of the SF/F spectrum, The Girl Who Leapt Through Time is a really good teen movie about growing up that also has a time travel element.  If you're interested in TV series, then Cowboy Bebop is a modern sci-fi classic (an important influence on Firefly, and bearer of the Petty Tyrant seal of approval), while Fullmetal Alchemist and Moribito are both good fantasy series (especially the former).

Stepping away from sci-fi and fantasy for a moment, there are a number of movies I highly recommend. Whisper of the Heart is about a young girl who wants to be a writer and is probably my favorite anime movie ever.  Tokyo Godfathers is a Christmas-themed movie about a group of homeless people in Tokyo who discover an abandoned baby and is also really good.  Nasu: Summer in Andalusia has a much lower profile than any of the other anime I've mentioned here but is one of my favorite sports anime (about cycling, to be specific).  The Castle of Cagliostro is a period adventure film somewhat reminiscent of Indiana Jones and is supposedly loved by Steven Spielberg.  Samurai X: Trust & Betrayal is one of the most prominent samurai-themed anime (and also doesn't have any of the over-the-top demon and monsters that often creep in to the genre).  It's a miniseries that's about four episodes long.  Samurai Champloo is a full TV series (26 episodes) that takes a cheerfully anachronistic look at the samurai genre and has a largely hip hop soundtrack.   Halfy liked this one despite his well-known opinions on hip hop.

Anime comedies are often harder to get into because they depend on culturally specific humor and a lot of them play with stereotypes about anime, so I don't generally recommend them as a starting point, but if you're in the mood for that, then Full Metal Panic: Fumoffu? a short TV series) is a pretty great parody of military sci-fi.  Detroit Metal City is a parody of death metal (and also the Japanese visual kei scene) and is pretty accessible to Western audiences.  Some of the humor gets kinda inappropriate, though it's entirely based on poking fun at the bands and their over-inflated view of themselves, and nobody does anything too offensive in the show (they just say stuff).

That's probably way more than you were asking for, but I don't like recommending just one or two things because a person might not like or be in the mood for a particular genre. Most of these can be found online if you're interested.

If it's a tv show you're after, I'm not sure Avatar is actually anime, but it's pretty great and it is what me and Eldo have been clogging this thread up with for the past couple of months.

I really liked Howl's Moving Castle and Princess Mononoke. Spirited Away is a bit weird, but definitely liked that one too.

bungobaggins wrote:What's an anime available on Netflix that you guys would recommend?

Edit after the fact: this ended up becoming way longer than I meant; stick to the recommendations at the top of the list if it's TL;DR for you.

I had to do a search for "anime" on Netflix cause I don't use it too much these days, but of the stuff that came up I'd enthusiastically recommend:

• Samurai Champloo: mash-up of Japanese period pictures, specifically the 17th century, and modern hip hop culture, from one of the most acclaimed anime directors (at least in the West; he's not quite as famous in Japan).  Has some phenomenally animated sword fights and an awesome, jazz-influenced,largely instrumental (ie, not a ton of vocals) hip hop soundtrack.  One of my all-time favorites; the first episode is a really good taste of what the show is like but some of the episodes in the first half are hit-or-miss.  Halfy liked the first episode but I dunno if he watched beyond that.
  
• Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood: this is one of two adaptations of the same manga (comic book) series and there is something of a controversy in the fandom over which adaptation is better.  Brotherhood is my choice.  Both are excellent fantasy stories in a world reminiscent of 19th century Europe where some characters possess alchemical powers, which are basically magic, but operate on fairly consistent rules, so the characters call it a science.  Heavily influenced by pulp and horror, gets kinda heavy for what's basically a YA show (but is still YA).  The original version, called simply Fullmetal Alchemist, does a better job with the main characters but the world is a little more constrained and the story less epic, and it goes seriously off the rails towards the end when they passed the manga and started making up their own story, Game of Thrones style. Brotherhood mostly follows the original story and IMO has a much better ending, but the original covers the first act (before diverging from the manga) better.
  
• The Devil is a Part-Timer: through a complicated but not all that important chain of events, Satan loses his supernatural powers and finds himself in modern-day Tokyo.  Anime comedies and I rarely see eye-to-eye, and I thought the premise of this sounded pretty dumb, but it's actually pretty funny IMO.  The characters aren't just obnoxious cliches, and the humor actually connected for me, which is a little uncommon for me and anime.
  
• Death Note: overwrought but self-aware mystery/thriller in which a high school student obtains a magical notebook which allows him to kill anyone whose name he writes in it. He sets out to purge the world of all evildoers through this power but quickly develops a god complex and ends up in an extended showdown with a aspie genius detective in the Sherlock Holmes mold, but with guyliner and vaguely homoerotic undertones (so I guess the only difference is the guyliner). This series was huge in the US anime community 5-10 years ago and I frickin' love it, though part of that is nostalgia.  It has a lot of utterly ridiculous stuff but it's tongue-in-cheek about this and has a darkly humorous tone throughout.
  
• Gurren Lagann: I adore this series and it's really hard for me to be objective about it, but it's not a great intro to anime.  It's really bombastic and plays around with a ton of anime tropes (mainly from the giant robot genre).  If you can look past the stereotypical "anime weirdness" there's actually a solid bildgungsroman with some meaningful commentary on masculinity and depression mixed in with the shouting and fighting.  But it can be hard to overlook the flashy stuff if you aren't familiar with what the show is referencing.  To be fair, even a lot of fans of the show don't look deeper than the surface level.  Probably should hold off on this.
  
• Ouran High School Host Club: this is another anime that's easier to appreciate if you're familiar with the tropes of its genre, specifically the harem and "reverse harem" subsets of romantic comedy anime.  This one is actually really well-told though, consciously plays with the tropes, and manages to have gender-bending and trans characters without being completely offensive about it.  Not a genre I watch a lot of, but an undeniably good show.  Some guys find the frills and roses and other stereotypically girly elements that the show is packaged in to be off-putting. Baingil really liked this one.
  

Other shows I haven't seen all the way through or am not a huge fan of, but that are worth taking into consideration.

• Blue Exorcist: another Baingil recommendation; I didn't like it as much but it's pretty good.  Full of anime Catholicism that bears no resemblance whatsoever to actual Christianity, but also full of pulpy good times.
  
• Psycho-Pass: futuristic cyberpunk thriller set in a dystopian city where technology is used to control the masses (so very familiar territory for anime, especially anime that gets imported in the West). I was never totally sold on it but I know a fair number of people who liked it a lot.
  
• Hunter x Hunter: another YA fantasy adventure type series.  I think genre is a little played out but people who are into that sort of thing tend to swear by this show. It's the second adaptation of the manga but, unlike FMA, the consensus that this is better seems to be almost universal.
  
• Attack on Titan: military sci-fi/monster movie action series about humans who are under siege from a mysterious race of giants (er, titans) who are out to eat all humans.  One of the biggest series in recent years.  Has some pretty sick action scenes but is really overwrought and doesn't compensate for that with self-awareness or humor.  Pretty unrelentingly dark, but handled in a fairly juvenile way.  I haven't seen the whole thing yet though, but a lot of people love it.  Was somewhat polarizing at Otakon a couple years back.
  

Also, stuff I would recommend skipping but that shows up prominently on Netflix searches and/or is recommended a lot.

• Sword Art Online: the premise is pure nerd-bait, with people trapped in a virtual reality MMORPG and battling each other to beat the game and thus escape.  Execution is bad, pacing is dismal, the second half of the season is actively offensive.  Hugely popular but I'd avoid it if I were you.
  
• Kill la Kill: MASSIVELY polarizing series from a guy with a really impressive resume.  Definitely not a starter anime.  Do not watch unless you can tolerate massive amounts of fanservice (T&A) and terrible sexual humor.  Plays into a lot of the worst stereotypes about anime.  Some people swear up and down that it's actually a parody/deconstruction/critique but I don't buy it.  The most generous thing I can say about it is that it knows the tropes it utilizes are bad, but that doesn't stop it from using them.  I could be wrong though cause this is from the same guys who made Gurren Lagann.
  
• Fairy Tail: utterly generic, horribly paced, terminally stupid fantasy adventure show.
  
• Deadman Wonderland: weird sort of supernatural prison story that tries to be really edgy but collapses under the wait of its own stupidity.  The only time it ever brought me anything remotely resembling entertainment was when Adult Swim aired a censored version and in some scenes more than half the words were obscured by beeps.  This was pretty funny and vastly improved the writing to boot.
  
• Heaven's Lost Property: aka "a starter guide to the anime industry's problem with misogyny".  Even if you can look past that, it's still not a good show.
  

And I would definitely recommend Avatar to anyone on here (it's the closest TV has gotten to a fantasy story on par with The Hobbit or LOTR, IMO), but it's unfortunately not available on Netflix anymore.

Sorry again for that post getting so long.

Bluebottle wrote:Yeah, I was mostly thinking of the "..will have a string of unhealthy relationships." comment. But, who knows, maybe they were just what each other needed.

Well yeah, I don't think any relationship involving Azula is going to have a healthy dynamic.  But Ty Lee certainly has got her own issues so I can see the basis for an attraction to Azula, especially her individuality and compared to Ty Lee's fear of blending in to the point of invisibility.  Ever since it was pointed out to me, I've been a little uncomfortable with Ty Lee's arc ending with her joining the Kyoshi Warriors, who do basically the same thing that her sisters were forced to do growing up (dressing identically as a "matched set").  One could argue that maybe Ty Lee had become confident in herself to be able to do this, but I don't think enough time was spent on her (since she's a supporting character, after all) to come to that conclusion with confidence.  So I dunno, I think both Azula and Ty Lee have stuff to work through at the end of the series, though certainly much more so for Azula.

Aaaah. You can't say stuff like that. I'm the worlds most indecisive person. Now I'll just feel sorry for all the stuff I'm missing out on.

Nah, I mostly think it's interesting, so don't hold back on my account. I was mostly thinking of your "death of the author" comment and how it's probably best to seperate the actual artistic creation and it's creation.

I do find all the stuff about how cohesively they mapped out the story really interesting. It really shows in the finished article. As you can somehow follow these red lines through all these seemingly disparate episodes.

Comparing it with something as messily written as Game of Thrones just gives me a headache. I thik Avatars epic fantasy mantle is pretty safe for the time being. And that's quite the achievement for what on it's surface is just a goofy cartoon show.

Aww, I can relate to the indecision. Sometimes I get annoyed at myself for mulling over the flaws of a show/movie so much when I would like to simply enjoy it.  I think I've gotten better at being able to enjoy things even when I'm aware of their flaws, though.  And while Avatar isn't perfect, it does a lot of things extremely well.  I remember some people (not you) poking fun before GOT S5 when I said that I thought Avatar's epic fantasy title was safe, so it's validating to hear you agree.

Yeah, although even David Benioff admitted the silliness of it after the show was picked up. It was a pitch to sell the idea to HBO simply.

All "X meets Y" simplifications are a little silly, but I think the one for GOT is more fitting than most.  It's kinda interesting, not only does it help explain some (by no means all) of the appeal of the story itself, it also acknowledges both works of the early 2000s without whom GOT could never have been made. The Soparnos more than any other single show kicked off the HBO-led revolution in premium cable dramas that we're still enjoying today, and LOTR (along with Harry Potter) vindicated the notion of live-action epic fantasy and started a brief boom in screen fantasy (which also gave us Avatar itself, though it quickly devolved into more of a YA adaptation boom).

<GIFs from The Beach>

I feel torn about The Beach. When I first watched it (during Book 3's premiere) I hated it since I wanted more plot movement and action from the show at that point.  Over time I've come to appreciate Book 3 a lot more in general, but I'm still unsure about The Beach.  It's very ... '80s teen movie.  To be fair, a lot of Avatar episodes are in part tributes to kinds of stories that at first blush wouldn't seem to fit with the rest of the show.  Hell, just a few episodes before The Beach was The Headband, aka "Avatar does Footloose", and I love that episode!  I think the main thing that still throws me about The Beach is Azula's characterization in it.  I think it was worthwhile for the show to give us a glimpse of her more vulnerable side and try to humanize her, but having her open up to Zuko just seemed too at odds with her character in the rest of the show.  But I haven't watched it in a long time and I might think differently nowadays.

Thanks for that list Eldo! I had watched the first three episodes of Attack on Titan the other day and wasn't sure what to make of it. The premise is interesting, but it only really grabbed me in one moment at the end of the first episode. Why are all the Titans naked or flayed? Why do they look like humans? Maybe a bit too weird for my tastes.

That one about the devil sounds like it might be up my alley, though. I'll try to take a look at these as I get around to them. Thanks for your impressions and expertise.

I actually only just started watching Attack on Titan a few days ago myself (after having heard about it for so long). I'm about nine episodes in and there are still a lot of open questions. No idea how much is answered, since the anime is only through its first season and the manga is ongoing (a second season is planned for next year). I'm not really sold on it but I'd like to watch more before giving a final opinion.

I'm glad you found my rambling interesting; hope you enjoy the show!

Avatar is a lovely series. I tried to record it on tv when it aired, which lead to missing a few and trying to catch up on re-runs (which they did a few of actually).

I watched it in Norwegian since I only had the Nordic languages to choose from. Iroh was for a time voiced by Harald Mæle*, so he was sprouting words of wisdom in Nynorsk. Which was wonderfully weird and rather fitting.

*Darn diddly darn, I know I recognize his voice in a quite a few things, but I didn't know he was the Norwegian Dumbledore, or Smee (Smisk) on Disney jr.

I've never seen any of the dubbed versions of ATLA, but it's always interesting to hear which ones are well-regarded and which aren't. I'm glad that the Norwegian one was apparently good.

The English language voice actor who played Iroh in the first two seasons, Mako Iwamatsu, died around the end of season two, so they had to replace him with Greg Baldwin (no relation to Alex Baldwin as far as I know) for season three and, allegedly, a few scenes towards the end of S2. For the most part I think it's an almost seamless imitation, though I've always wondered if that's why Iroh makes so few appearances in S3. Part of that's probably to give Zuko room to grow on his own though.

NB the tribute at the end of Iroh's section of "The Tales of Ba Sing Se" is to the voice actor Mako since that episode was finished shortly after he passed away.

Interesting you should have seen it with Norwegian voices, Amarië. Not sure I can imagine how that would have been. You should definitely give the original a go though.

http://www.free-tv-video-online.info/internet/avatar_the_last_airbender/

Amarië wrote:I watched it in Norwegian since I only had the Nordic languages to choose from. Iroh was for a time voiced by Harald Mæle*, so he was sprouting words of wisdom in Nynorsk. Which was wonderfully weird and rather fitting.

That actually sounds pretty cool.

Amarië wrote:*Darn diddly darn, I know I recognize his voice in a quite a few things, but I didn't know he was the Norwegian Dumbledore, or Smee (Smisk) on Disney jr.

I certainly remember his Obelix.