Re: Smaug vs. Gollum

by bungobaggins Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:59 am

Speak of the mother fucking devil.

http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=671917;sb=post_time;so=DESC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;guest=97969576

edit: At least there's some sensible voices in that thread.

by Sinister71 Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:21 am

bungobaggins wrote:Speak of the mother fucking devil.

http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=671917;sb=post_time;so=DESC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;guest=97969576

edit: At least there's some sensible voices in that thread.

can't read it I'm banned and don't feel like getting up to switch to another modem Shocked

by bungobaggins Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:24 am

Wait, when you get banned from torn you can't visit the forum at all?

This is what the OP says.

radagast is the moth

"its quite a discussed topic but i would like to throw it out there if anyone has missed it, and to me now it seems quite plausible!

as a changer of shape and hue as quoted in the LOTR and with the possible link between the moths and the eagles, the sudden appearance in the witch king prison which was shown in the sneek, and the tantalising appearance again as a moth in orthanc/lotr, it seems quite plausible that radagast could be all these things, and more! plus it means he doesnt die!"

by Mrs Figg Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:28 am

talking of Saurons eye becoming Smaugs, they already did that.

The trailer.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:16 pm

I think I first heard this theory jokingly proposed by Petty- Eldo

Yeah Im claiming first call on this terrible idea- way back before TH film had even begun. Mad

by Eldorion Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:02 pm

Maybe PJ saw your post and thought it was such a good idea he'd use it. Very Happy

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:25 pm

by Sinister71 Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:22 am

Eldorion wrote:Maybe PJ saw your post and thought it was such a good idea he'd use it.

Talk about a slap in the scrotum Shocked

by bungobaggins Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:48 am

I feel like I need to post this gif again.

Smaug vs. Gollum - Page 2 Tumblr_lto3kaCVen1qahhxwo1_400

by RA Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:01 am

by Eldorion Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:24 am

I like where this thread is going...

by Beleg Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:28 pm

For me there is a lot more dread involved with Gollum than with Smaug. The dwarves go stir up a hornet's nest with Smaug but at that point Smaug was just minding his own business sitting on all of that dwarf treasure. With Gollum you've got him threatening to eat Bilbo and then you've got him following The Fellowship through Moria and you've got the constant dread that he is going to throttle Frodo and Sam in their sleep or otherwise betray them (as he tries to do with Shelob for instance). Smaug is here and gone so fast, plenty scary while in action but only briefly so.

by Eldorion Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:30 pm

Interesting point, Beleg. Smile

I think Smaug leaves a massive impression from his brief scenes, mainly the conversation with Bilbo. Of Bilbo's two conversations with monsters beneath mountains in The Hobbit, I think I probably prefer the one with Smaug. But Gollum definitely comes into his own in LOTR and becomes one of the most fascinating and eerie characters in Middle-earth.

by Beleg Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:01 pm

Eldorion wrote:Interesting point, Beleg. :)I think Smaug leaves a massive impression from his brief scenes, mainly the conversation with Bilbo. Of Bilbo's two conversations with monsters beneath mountains in The Hobbit, I think I probably prefer the one with Smaug. But Gollum definitely comes into his own in LOTR and becomes one of the most fascinating and eerie characters in Middle-earth.

When I originally read the books I wanted Gollum dead worse than I wanted Smaug dead. Smaug didn't sneak up on people in their sleep and wrap slimy fingers around their necks.

Yes, the original dialogue between Bilbo and Smaug was better than that of Bilbo and Gollum. Smaug was obviously capable of doing much more harm than Gollum, but before Bilbo snuck in and pilfered some treasure he was just a sleeping dragon who hadn't bothered anyone in ages.

by Eldorion Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:15 pm

I can see where you're coming from. I wonder if Smaug ever ate babies like Gollum did. Razz

I think Gollum feels a little closer to reality and can be more unsettling for that reason (to me at least).

by Radaghast Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:18 pm

But Smeagol is a pathetic little wretch (who was ultimately responsible for the destruction of the Ring) while Smaug is an engine of destruction that wasn't going to stay asleep forever.

by Beleg Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:21 pm

The concept of Raddy turning himself into a moth is beyond silly and poorly thought out. A wizard or any other powerful being taking on the form of a moth would be foolish. If you are a moth then you are subject to being suddenly killed and eaten by all manner of birds, bats, etc. Gandalf can speak to moths. Raddy who is much more a wizard of the critters could clearly do so as well. He could speak to real moths and birds and send them about as messengers, spies or sentries without having to take on such a vulnerable form himself.

The only rational reason a wizard would take on such a form would be to escape from a situation from which he otherwise could not...such as imprisonment behind bars he somehow could not break, bend or destroy. He could take the form of a moth or bird (assuming he had the ability to do so), fly through the bars and quickly return to his own form thus limiting his time in such a vulnerable state.

by Eldorion Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:23 pm

Beleg wrote:The concept of Raddy turning himself into a moth is beyond silly and poorly thought out.

Smaug vs. Gollum - Page 2 Tumblr_m1vnqmksG81qlshgfo1_400

by Beleg Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:29 pm

Radaghast wrote:But Smeagol is a pathetic little wretch (who was ultimately responsible for the destruction of the Ring) while Smaug is an engine of destruction that wasn't going to stay asleep forever.

Gollum stalked the Fellowship and later just Frodo and Sam. He was a dread that was hard to detect and seemingly impossible to shake.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Smaug was not the last of the great worms (maybe the greatest one remaining, seems like I remember something about that). The remaining ones all seemed to be laying low and none of the others were influenced by Sauron to join in the attacks on Gondor or other nefarious activity during LOTR, so I'm not sure Smaug would have done anything differently.

In the big picture Smaug's demise was only significant in that it allowed for increased prosperity for a time and that may have left the dwarves that reinhabited the lonely moutain, the people of Laketown and the elves of Mirkwood in a little better position to deal with the difficulties to come in LOTR.

by Radaghast Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:36 pm

Well, that's pretty significant, even if Sauron didn't enlist Smaug.

by Mrs Figg Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:38 pm

I wish they had just left Smaug alone. I never enjoyed the part when he dies, he is such an fascinating character its like something important was lost when he was.

by Radaghast Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:45 pm

I was kind of disappointed when he died, too, but he was evil and needed to be destroyed for the dwarves to have a home. And if he sided with Sauron, the Free Peoples would have been royally screwed.

by Beleg Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:59 pm

Radaghast wrote:I was kind of disappointed when he died, too, but he was evil and needed to be destroyed for the dwarves to have a home. And if he sided with Sauron, the Free Peoples would have been royally screwed.

The way I see it Smaug was a prisoner of his treasure. IMO he didn't dare venture far from the Lonely Mountain for fear that someone would take some of his treasure. I don't know how fast or how far he could fly without rest but IMO it made him never more than a local terror because he needed to keep an eye on his hoard.

by Radaghast Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:02 pm

Gandalf evidently thought it important that Smaug be destroyed. And, it's all well and good that all he wanted was his hoard, but he stole it and the mountain itself from the dwarves. Not really cool to let the dwarves be nomads just so this thief could be left alone to his treasure.

by Mrs Figg Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:26 pm

But he was one of the last Dragons, its like saying its ok large predators all die out because they eat us, they may eat us but something important and magical leaves the Earth forever once they are all gone.