Family tree

Chemical Engineering student Emil Johansson has an amazing passion project he developed mapping out the genealogy of everybody in J.R.R. Tolkien’s Middle-earth. Called the LOTR project, it provides a great big family tree for Tolkiendom. Its scope is amazing as is the effort and organization, although it is still a work in progress. We asked Johansson to tell us more about his project and this is what he had to say:

“I first read the Lord of the Rings when I was eleven years old, just in time for the first movie to come out. At that point it’s not fair to say I was passionate about it but rather that I found it a good way of escaping reality for a while. I was the kind of kid who lived a lot in my imagination.

The first family tree I made was probably six years ago and consisted of two huge papers, 1 by 1 meters. I quickly realized this was something I wanted to share, but my knowledge of the web was too poor to allow it. I was not until November last year that I decided to give it a try. Even though much of the research already had been done, programming the site and adding the characters into the database have taken a lot of time. Too much for me to want to think about it.

I still have a massive amount of work left before I’m finished and I will not give up until it is perfect.”

http://www.lotrproject.com/

Thats pretty damn impressive.

I hadn't realised Prince Imrahil was related to Denethor through marriage, being his brother in law.

Havn't had time to have a proper look, seems to go on forever

Sam and Rose had 15 kids!- Sam didn't spend so much in the the garden then when he got back!

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Sam and Rose had 15 kids!- Sam didn't spend so much in the the garden then when he got back!

wow thats such a good idea, I always wondered what happened to Celebrian? Elronds missis, did she go to the Gray Havens? is that why she is not in Rivendell?

She was captured by orcs Mrs Figg and had unpleasant things occur to her which a delicate mind must not dwell on. Her sons rescued her but she was so damaged she could no longer find any joy in the world and so left it.

Did she die or go to the Gray Havens though, would Elrond find her there? thats really sad.

She went to the Havens and left on a ship- presumably Elrond was reunited with her- then had to tell her he had left her daughter behind to die- that must have been some reunion!.

Crikey, but I thought Arwen was immortal. I thought that was Elronds beef that once Aragorn died she would be left alone palely loitering about forests dressed in black. like in the filum, where she is standing at Aragorns tomb and is doomed to wander forever alone, or am I missing summat?

According to the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen-

'There at last when the mallorn-leaves were falling, but spring had not yet come, she (Arwen) laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth and there is her green grave, unitl the world is changed, and all the days of her life are utterly forgotten by men that come after, and elanor and niphredil bloom no more east of the Sea.'



(And no its not very clear in the film- like other things PJ makes a muddy pool out of something that should be clear as water)

So basically she outlived Aragorn by a few hundreds of years? as the Mallorn trees were still golden during LOTR, and the Mallorn trees probably took thousands of years to go from Spring to Spring again, as I seem to remember something about Lothlorien in the spring was when the Elves first lived there, but maybe this is all my imagination and I am rambling and wandering myself.

Not sure it specifies exactly how long she 'lingered' after Aragorns death but I get the impression it was quite a time.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Not sure it specifies exactly how long she 'lingered' after Aragorns death but I get the impression it was quite a time.

I actually got exactly the opposite impression. If we extend the quote from the end of 'The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen' we are told that after Aragorn's death on 1 March (that date coming from Appendix B):

LOTR, Appendix A wrote:Arwen went forth from the House, and the light of her eyes was quenched, and it seemed to her people that she had become cold and grey as nightfall in winter that comes without a star. Then she said farewell to Eldarion, and to her daughters, and to all whom she had loved; and she went out from the city of Minas Tirith and passed away to the land of Lorien, and dwelt there alone under the fading trees until winter came. Galadriel had passed away and Celeborn also had gone, and the land was silent.

There at last when the mallorn-leaves were falling, but spring had not yet come, she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth; and there is her green grave....

On the topic of mallorn trees, they actually went through a year-long cycle, but unlike normal trees:

UT, A Description of Numenor wrote:Its [Mallorn] leaves, like those of the beech but greater, were pale green above and beneath were silver, glistering in the sun; in the autumn they did not fall, but turned to pale gold. In the spring it bore golden blossom in clusters like a cherry, which bloomed on during the summer; and as soon the flowers opened the leaves fell, so that through spring and summer a grove of malinorni were carpeted and roofed with gold, but its pillars were of grey silver.

With that in mind, the reference to the mallorn leaves beginning to fall in the first quote establishes the time of Arwen's death as during the mixed period between winter and spring early in the year. Given the fairly clear chain of events spelled out earlier in the quote, I interpret this to mean that Arwen only survived Aragorn by about a year (from his death in March until perhaps February-March of the following year). I think the short death is in keeping with the statement earlier in the Tale that for Arwen, "it was not her lot to die until all that she had gained was lost." The death of Aragorn and her subsequent move away from Minas Tirith represented that lost, and so the mortality she had accepted came quickly.

I could be wrong, and there's a fair chance Elthir is waiting in the wings with some obscure quote to prove me wrong. But that's how I've always interpreted the passage about Arwen's death.

On the actual thread topic, that family tree is very cool. I made a number of hand-drawn family trees years ago, before I was active on forums at all, but it takes modern computing technology to be able to combine all of the various lines of descent the way this guy did. I especially like that he included so much of the three Houses of the Edain from the First Age. There are family trees for them given in The Silmarillion but you have to dig deep into the later volumes of The History of Middle-earth to find a greater level of detail.

the whole Arwen Aragorn story is soo said, yet very happy. Thet could have made a whole movie about it.. whait, they did, at least the beginning of their romance x) I wish in LOTR they would have had some more endings. Told us the shire, and Sam having 15 kids, and Legolas and Gimli planting trees and rebuilding the city and so on, but then LOTR would've turned out immensly cheesy and well.. it would be a terrible ending. On the onther hand I enjoy plundering though this afterwards and make up my own ideas.

If memeory serves they did shoot that stuff Norc- I least seem to remember something about them having shot Sam as Mayor and Legolas and Gimli going off on a ship- I always thought they could have put those bits interspersed in the end credits.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:If memeory serves they did shoot that stuff Norc- I least seem to remember something about them having shot Sam as Mayor and Legolas and Gimli going off on a ship- I always thought they could have put those bits interspersed in the end credits.

yes they did, showing them walk in a forest or something, but it didn't make it into the movie, which is okay, i like discovering stuff like that afterwards. that way it doesn't feel like it is quite over yet

Another 60 Hobbit names have been added.

http://lotrproject.com/hobbits.php

Thorin

http://lotrproject.com/dwarves.php?cid=184#open

Ah, I see the descent of Gil-galad has been changed as I requested (ok, maybe not due to me, but it has changed from earlier incarnations). But he is boxed in blue. Hmm, well... best to stay away from that I guess.

But Ingil remains (Karen Fonstad's influence?) so I must protest. And how can a second Beorn of non-red-box distinction be descended from a red-boxed Heden? A non-canon character has a canon character for a son? I would think he should have inherited the red-box gene.


Anyway, lots of good work but nothing's perfect -- I might measure each box to see if they are all of equal size; and if not I can't see much reason for going forward with this project.

I could be wrong, and there's a fair chance Elthir is waiting in the wings with some obscure quote to prove me wrong.

Ah you wound me Eldorion And I only wish the following were more obscure!

As first published the passage in question read:

'... and dwelt there alone under the fading trees; for Galadriel also was gone, and the elven-leaves were withering.'

'There at last she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth; and there is her green grave...'

The Return of the King, first edition.

But Tolkien revised this, and two of the World's leading Tolkien scholars have noted...

'The new passage seems to suggest that it was less than a year after Aragorn's death, rather than an unspecified time, when Arwen at last surrendered her life.'

Hammond and Scull

Wait that agrees with you!

Drat.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:According to the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen-

'There at last when the mallorn-leaves were falling, but spring had not yet come, she (Arwen) laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth and there is her green grave, unitl the world is changed, and all the days of her life are utterly forgotten by men that come after, and elanor and niphredil bloom no more east of the Sea.'



(And no its not very clear in the film- like other things PJ makes a muddy pool out of something that should be clear as water)

They did at least instruct Liv Tyler to read the appendices, and she was sentimental enough to cry over it. I don't think her death belonged in the movies, as it was relegated to the appendices of the books.

I actually like they added more about Arwen and her life and death after Aragorns dies, it is intriguing and mysterious what becomes of her and it made me want to know more about the History of Middle Earth, I bet other people thought so too, anything that gets people reading is good.