Israel/Palestine

With the Palestinians pushing for UN membership and the US declaring they will veto it what's eveyones view on this.

My own view is that after the Palestinians fought for the Allies in WW2 they were betrayed and sold out by the Allies. The formation of Israel has largely been a complete disaster and modern day Palestine is a country sized prison. The Israeli settlements are illegal and are simple thuggery and theft and in my view most cerrtainly Palestine should be recognised as a sovereign nation with UN recognition and membership.
But what is Obama's game? He must know vetoing this in the face of large demonsrations for it, and at a time when Arab peoples all over the region are voicing their desire to determine their own futures, will not make the US any more popular in the area.

I think it was a bad move creating the Modern Jewish State in the first place. Ostensibly, when that happened a new set of Crusaders took over - a large group of Europeans, in fact - a foreign invasion. The Palestinians are asking for what is rightfully theirs. Indeed, the Palestinians have actually lived there for the two thousand years Jewish folk have been living in far-flung countries. Only a Nazi would refuse a people their own right to Statehood.

I was beginning to think was too serious a topic even for here! (Or too boring)
I have always found the Jewish claim on the land dodgy- they took it by force, held it for only a few hundred years all in and even at the time of Christ the vast majority of Jews were living outside the HOly Land in Gentile cities.
And for me any claim which at the end of the day rests on the argment "God said it was ours." Is not going to cut much ice with me.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I was beginning to think was too serious a topic even for here! (Or too boring)
I have always found the Jewish claim on the land dodgy- they took it by force, held it for only a few hundred years all in and even at the time of Christ the vast majority of Jews were living outside the HOly Land in Gentile cities.
And for me any claim which at the end of the day rests on the argment "God said it was ours." Is not going to cut much ice with me.

Nor me neither. And seeing many Jews are not "practicing" Jews how does that claim mean anything to many Jews, anyway? Also, I doubt we have many "Ethnic" Jews left. We more seem to have a "Jewish Club" instead full of Western interacial ethnic types. Israel by my reckoning is merely "The Israel Club" - and a wealthy club, I'll give it that. I am not anti-Semitic by the way. Indeed, how many Modern Jews are "Semites", I wonder. But the West definitely created a monster when it created Israel in a short sighted effort to keep a beady eye on the Middle East (and a grubby finger in the pie to boot).

Pettytyrant101 wrote:With the Palestinians pushing for UN membership and the US declaring they will veto it what's eveyones view on this.

This isn't an issue I've followed closely recently but I think Palestine should be allowed into the UN. Israel has proven time and again that they aren't interested in creating a country that is open and fair to Palestinians, so the Palestinian people should be allowed their own state. Even though it's already far smaller than the UN's original 1940s mandate and is continually encroached upon by Israel.

The Israeli settlements are illegal and are simple thuggery and theft and in my view most cerrtainly Palestine should be recognised as a sovereign nation with UN recognition and membership.

I entirely agree. Part of me suspects that Israeli opposition to letting Palestine join the UN is the fear that it will be harder for them to occupy Palestinian territory. Sadly I don't think UN membership would really change that, so long as Israel acts like they have a right to settle foreign territory and everyone else should be grateful when they offer to -- not actually give that territory back -- but just temporarily stop taking even more.

But what is Obama's game? He must know vetoing this in the face of large demonsrations for it, and at a time when Arab peoples all over the region are voicing their desire to determine their own futures, will not make the US any more popular in the area.

Israel is one of the "third rails" in US politics: touch it and you die. Part of this is due to a powerful and effective pro-Israel lobby in Washington and part of it is because Israel is very popular in the US. I'm not entirely sure if the popularity is because apocalyptic Christians think the existence of Israel is a necessary prerequisite for the Second Coming (certainly a factor in some circles), residual Holocaust guilt, or something else. Probably a combination of factors.

Israel once again demonstrates its disregard for democracy, liberty, and human rights. I'm just going to stop now so I don't go off on a rant.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16526469

Israel's Supreme Court has upheld a law banning Palestinians who marry Israelis from gaining Israeli citizenship.

Civil rights groups had petitioned the court to overturn the law, saying it was unconstitutional.

"Human rights do not prescribe national suicide," Judge Asher Grunis wrote in the judgement.

The law was introduced in 2003, with its backers citing security concerns and the need to ensure Israel remains a Jewish-majority state.

Also:

The law is thought to have prevented thousands of Palestinians from living with their Israeli spouses

And just remember if Romney ends up President Israel is your friend- no matter what they do.

Is Isreal responsible

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/01/201211162848691713.html

You wouldn't want to be an arab scientist woud you? Funny how the same scientist, born in the America, growing up to do exactly the same job would be a patriot and valued member of the American Nation. But thats ok becasue America can have nukes because its not a nutty rogue religous state who would actually use them.....oh wait.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:And just remember if Romney ends up President Israel is your friend- no matter what they do.

If only it was just Romney who is willing to give Israel a carte blanche. Unfortunately, that attitude is pretty widespread in American politics. Most of the Republican candidates have been trying to one-up each other seeing how much they can praise Israel and accuse Obama of not being supportive enough to Israel.

And what happens in the real world outside of the Greatest Nation on Earth when these same men get into office and find themselves having to organise incredibly delicate diplomatic meetings with the Palestinians?
No wonder the Palestinians are suspicous of US involvment with this sort of rhetoric being common place.