EDUCATION

Somehow I am not suprised Kafria that the official statistics hide more than they show, that is after all one of the main purposes of official statistics.
Is there a stupidly obvious solution to education from a teachers point of view? If the management structure is anything like as bad as in care then all the edicts come from people in offices somewhere who have never been near the actual job and couldn't or wouldn't do it anyway. And no-one ever seems to think to ask the people who do the job day in and day out.

depends on who you ask.

It is hugely complicated first by that question of what should we be trying to achieve. So many different takes on that, the current focus being setting targets and having measurable results.

But it is a much bigger question, Orwell side swiped the major issue, education as terminology suggests some kind of judgment of the 'worth' of what is being taught. We don't send our kids to learn, as learning could be anything (how to pick a bogey and flick it at miss for one! ) We send them to be 'educated' as in they learn 'good' things. However who gets a say in what is worth teaching is highly contentious.

For myself, I would do away with a lot of the target stuff and concentrate on growing the person. My set that statistically against targets have not done well, actually all of them got what they needed from science to go on to college bar 1 or 2, many of them worked out what they needed four months ago, worked to achieve that and stopped worrying about reaching their challenging targets. They were capable, but how can we really argue with the development of the life skills - set a target, apply for course, pass interview, manage time effectively to achieve goal, but without over stressing and still achieving a work /fun balance - not bad at 15.

I am more worried about the kids who leave us after 5 years who still haven't learnt that basic manners get you a lot further than throwing a paddy till you get what you want!

Kafria wrote:I am more worried about the kids who leave us after 5 years who still haven't learnt that basic manners get you a lot further than throwing a paddy till you get what you want!

Perhaps if kids got what they want they wouldn't have to invoke this "Paddy" chap!

Oh sorry, Kafria. I missread your last post. I don't agree that kids should be allowed to throw anyone around, including this Paddy chap. (Is he Irish, is that why?)

"what should we be trying to achieve. So many different takes on that, the current focus being setting targets and having measurable results."- Kafria

Not on learning for the sake of accumaliting knowledge then? In order to foster a greater understanding of yourself and the world in which you find yourself and its many complications?
To be more precise I think there should be a division is so called education. On the one hand Life Skills- which would include knowing the basics you need to know on writing, arithmetic the sciences, history and modern studies. Everyone would do that from the start, not just from secondary. But everything else is essentailly vocational- dependent on the inherent abilities of the child and what they find stimulating or engaging. And the aim should be knoweldge for its own sake not a target or a goal or a place in the market place (the latter is more likely to come anyay if the child has been educated in things they have a genuine interest in anyway).
And there is of course the Yes, Minister point of view.

From 1:44 onwards this sounds bizarrely familar and current.

Kafria wrote:But it is a much bigger question, Orwell side swiped the major issue, education as terminology suggests some kind of judgment of the 'worth' of what is being taught. We don't send our kids to learn, as learning could be anything (how to pick a bogey and flick it at miss for one! ) We send them to be 'educated' as in they learn 'good' things. However who gets a say in what is worth teaching is highly contentious.

I have an issue with someone telling me what's "good". I look at my son and think, he should be building dog houses at school, not learning how to write essays. He should be writing down (briefly) how he built his dog house, including drawing a plan with measurements etc. on it that properly conveys the correct information to others. Here lies "learning" how to communicate by written word, which entails "learning" not only "written" language but "learning" language (communication) itself. My son taught himself how to pick his nose by observation and trial and error. He self-educates, like the rest of us usually do. Teachers should just facilitate learning- not always, necessarily, by direct demonstration, mind. Who taught you to pick your nose, Kafria? I bet it wasn't something you were "educated" in. "Learning" is akin to "thinking" btw. "Education" is akin to "brainwashing". Everyone knows that.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:From 1:44 onwards this sounds bizarrely familar and current.

Is there a need to post this, Petty, just now? We're trying to have a serious conversation here. (Brilliant show though )

It is relevant to the discussion at hand or I would have put it on the youtube thread. In fact the very matter under discussion is what is being discussed here. And as these were written using insdirs in the real Government of the day I thought their perspective would contribute to the discussion.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:And the aim should be knoweldge for its own sake not a target or a goal or a place in the market place (the latter is more likely to come anyay if the child has been educated in things they have a genuine interest in anyway).

For alll your silly derailing behaviors, Petty, I think we actually agree on something.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:It is relevant to the discussion at hand or I would have put it on the youtube thread. In fact the very matter under discussion is what is being discussed here. And as these were written using insdirs in the real Government of the day I thought their perspective would contribute to the discussion.

Sorry. I should have "watched" first and "chided" second!

Teachers should just facilitate learning-

Arghhhh! sorry, not your fault and I don't disagree, but this phrase is increasingly common jargon from the powers at be used to berate you for not doing enough.(Although I do take exception to the idea I have nothing to share or pass on through my learning and exerience teachers themselves are often the best resource avaliable in the room.)


{{{May have to dig out that whip, to put some naughty boys bacK in their place!}}}}

Kafria wrote:

Teachers should just facilitate learning-

Arghhhh! sorry, not your fault and I don't disagree, but this phrase is increasingly common jargon from the powers at be used to berate you for not doing enough.(Although I do take exception to the idea I have nothing to share or pass on through my learning and exerience teachers themselves are often the best resource avaliable in the room.)

Yeah, to be honest, so do I. I almost didn't use the word. I'm not a jargon kind of guy. Teaching (and the Police Force) are full of it. Eeek! Sorry!

Kafria wrote:May have to dig out that whip, to put some naughty boys bacK in their place!}}}}

To be perfectly honest, the way I've been behaving, you should, Kafria. I've been (subconciously) in need of discipline for ever so long. Petty, however, should be left alone. I'm sure a serious talking to will suffice on his part. I'm the one crying out for punishment. And much more than Petty does. I don't care what he says in his next post. It should be on a "needs" basis. I need punishment MUCH more than he does. Honest.

Now the question is just how seriously you take your punihment. Is a whip enough?

*toddles off to the garage*I'm sure I have some restraints around here

Punishing Orwell? I know how to sort that out- let me in your garage Kafria. I'll soon fix him !

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Punishing Orwell? I know how to sort that out- let me in your garage Kafria. I'll soon fix him !

(I need a sulking outing smilie!) Why should you have all the fun?

Oh all right. You do it then or we can take turns if only for the look on his face.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Punishing Orwell? I know how to sort that out- let me in your garage Kafria. I'll soon fix him !

If you come up anywhere near me when I'm looking through the curtains, Petty.. well... well... err.... you better watch it! No, you better not watch it... keep your grubby eyes elsewhere... {Honestly, Kafria, I wouldn't be letting the likes of Petty into your garage. How could you punish me properly with an audience? It'd be farcial!}}}}}

I'm sure if we put our heads together we could come up with something suitable!

Well they do say two heads are better than one- or at least some of the women at my work say so.

My goodness gracious! What's the EDUCATION Thread coming to?

Seems pretty educational to me.

A wise man has told me
(Odo by name)
Never go to a garage
Not even if you're game.

So if Kafria
entices you into her garage
ensure it all happens
within the sanctity of marriage.

All you young men
naughty or not
remember your families
the reputations you've got.

and don't go to that place
of sin and disclosure
(and beware rakes and shovels
that you could trip over).

no Good Man goes there
not guru or priest
it's the Heart of Darknes
the Den of the Beast.

You'll pay a high prize
at the Second Coming
(as to all coming
God will be doing the summing).

So pray be wise
don't get enticed into her web
Kafria does not seek your betterment
She's seeking Pleasure instead!

"The Charted Words of A Respectable Hobbit."

Wisey Banks

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Seems pretty educational to me.

Not all education is to the good, Petty. It's Pandora's Box all over again.

Channelling, just for me?

Ooo I'm going all tingly!

The power of Channeling indeed. Explains why Porgy stays with the old buffer.