All New Who

well that's critical race theory for you, coming to a junior school near you, as well as drag queens.

{{ What's the problem with drag queens? good solid British tradtion, we've been taking our kids to see drag acts every xmas in panto for centuries, whats a panto dame if not a drag act for kids? Drag acts were very popular on tv whn we were growing up Figg - Dame Edna springs to mind as does Les Dawsons female characters, Danny La Rue, Stanley Baxter, Hinge and Brackett, Lily Savage and plenty more. }}

{{ I would take some issue with how they present their facts- first they use a lot of examples from the US before addressing the British version in order to tar everyone with same brush, the one British one Alda Dee has no such issues with regards to criminality, or minors but they try to suggest it by association. They use a very nasty and disengenious tactic- for example at about 21 mins in they put a pic up of a drag queen, associate it with inappropriate sexualisation for children and mention twerking, then add yeah this guy in the photo doesnt actually do any of that- so why show him at all save to try to harm by association? Why show his picture whilst saying those things save to harm by association?

Secondly the premise that if some drag queens turn out to have done stuff that makes them wholly unsuited to be around minors then all drag queens should be banned from teaching children is false, just as saying that because there is a list as long as history of hetrosexual teachers exploiting children all hetrosexuals must therefore be a danger to children. Its poor logic.

I shall have to drag (pun intended) an old photo out from somewhere, me and my mate, in drag aged about 10 in a school play (due my crabbit looks I made a perfect Ugly Sister in cinderella! )We stole the show, noone complained, noone thought it was offensive to dress two 10 year old boys in dresses and powdered wigs, the world wasnt so mad then.}}

{{ Again American, the two cultures when it comes to drag are not at all the same, the British tradition of drag in entertainment, family entertainment, is way older than the US- at least since pre-Christain pagan times and is not associated with sexualisation in the way the US culture is. You cant equate one with the other. US drag acts are a fairly modern thing, British drag is at least a 2000 year old tradition used in entertainment, from village festival rites to Shakespeares female characters to Lily Savage- all drag acts.}}

Drag is now being used as a vehicle to promote gender ideology, which has nothing to do with gay men. It’s a Trojan horse for gender ideologists out to introduce non-age appropriate material to kids. Boundaries have been crossed by those involved, which does a disservice to the great drag queens of a few decades ago. The gender Jihadis in breaking down boundaries and categories, have taken this to areas that society is rightly saying ‘no’ to. The resulting backlash will not discriminate between gay people who fought long and hard for equality and the ideological extremist in that ludicrous LGBTQIA2S+ construction that has fuck all to do with gay rights.

"What these parents, as well as librarians, school staff, and others, seem to have forgotten is that historically, sexual predators have rarely been open about their true nature and motives. The Catholic priests that abused children and men like Jimmy Savile didn’t tell parents they would be preying on their children. In fact, they did the opposite. They groomed them, and tricked them into believing they were safe, which led to horrendous suffering. Drag queen story times break down children’s natural boundaries toward strange men and vulgar behaviour, making them vulnerable to sex predators.

Drag is not the province of children. There are age-appropriate ways to offer children gay role models, minus the addition of sexualized themes."
Feminist Current. june 26 2022.

{{ But drag and homosexuality have never been the same thing, you sometimes get crossover with individuals, but in general drag does not equate to gay. As to age appropriate, what is and who decides? - I suspect these days if my primary school stuck a couple of 10 year olds in womens clothes for a play it would be concocted into an outrage and inappropriate by press and social media, teachers would be cancelled. }}

https://genspect.org/the-casually-regressive-message-of-drag-queen-story-hour/

If anyone wonders why I am not saying anything, it's because I have no words and I admire Petty for finding so many.

{{ Well you know me, never short of a word or ten! In 5 days time we'll have actual Who to discuss, not sure if thats better or not. }}

{{ In reponse to the link you put up Figg, its effectively making the same argument you stated earlier, namely- "Drag queen story times break down children’s natural boundaries toward strange men and vulgar behaviour, making them vulnerable to sex predators."

My question would be why would a man in drag reading to kids be wrong and make children more vulnerable to sex predators, when pantomine dames, making jokes that are 90% double entrendes not be?

For those not aware of the panto trad9tion in the UK they are generally put on at xmas time, usually based on classic fairy stories- Cinderella, Jack and the Beanstalk, Dick Whittington, that sort of thing, by tradition the lead female roles are played by men in drag and the lead male role, such as Dick in Dick Wittington is often played by a woman, the whole thing hinges on reversal of sexes and risky jokes. They are aimed at children and are very particpant filled performances, with lots of getting the audience to shout responses back, heres two examples, the first a classic Dame played by Ade Edmundson in Jack and the Beanstalk, and, as this is the Who thread lol, John Barrowman ( in a TARDIS onesie) and the Krankies showing just how double-entrende laden panto can be, as well has how prone to going wrong and improvising they are!





I'd love to know how this sort of bawdy traditional Anglo-saxon humour thats been around as family/children entertainment for centuries is somehow fine and dandy when a man in drag reading a childrens story to kids in a library is somehow an attack on children that destroys their ability to make judgements and leaves them open to predators. Whats the actual difference except panto is openly and deliberetly full of risky jokes? Shouldnt you be calling to stop panto as well, as an assualt on womens rights?}}

Panto is for families and drag queens are for adults going to clubs at night, if you still refuse to get it, that is not my problem. And personally I admire people who take the protection of children seriously, they are on the right side of history. Saville was a 'funny' man who looked like a clown, didn't end well did it.

{{ Pantos feature drag acts- thats what a pantomine dame is- a drag act, telling double and often single entrende based jokes to children. Nor are drag acts traditionally, or solely adult acts performed in night clubs, never have been. Some are, most in the UK however are not. Nor is it impossible for an artists to tailor their act to the audience, we had a drag act used to come round the old folks homes when I worked there- was hugely popular with the residents, did a few leaning towards blue bits as was an adult audience but nothing that would offend, more nudge, nudge, wink, wink stuff, same artist did childrens homes too, but they didnt do the same act, it was tailored to the age of the audience.

I admire people who take care of children seriously too, I admire less those who conflate those who act badly, like a Saville, with the vast majority of panto dames/drag acts who never would do such a thing. Thats just tarring everyone with same brush which is unfair. You say you are against cancel culture but you are cancelling all drag acts by putting them all in the category of inherently being a risk to children just because they are men dressed as women. I cannot agree with that premise. }}

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/drag-queen-story-hour-who-is-it-for

{ it is not difficult to find people in any profession who shouldnt be near children, it however says nothing at all about the professions in general, look what I found- pilot abusing kids-

https://www.heart.co.uk/dorset/news/local/former-ba-pilot-jailed-for-child-sex-offences/
-all pilots must be sex offenders!

And oh no police too!

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/13/metropolitan-police-officer-charged-child-sexual-offences

All police must be sex offenders too.
And as for teachers, theres loads of them!

https://www.denbighshirefreepress.co.uk/news/national/20660547.former-school-teacher-confessed-child-sex-offences-jailed/
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/22/teacher-and-partner-jailed-after-they-filmed-themselves-abusing-girl
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10594143/Footage-surfaces-Sydney-teacher-arrested-child-sex-abuse-charges-giving-chilling-speech.html
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/birmingham-teacher-charged-sexually-assaulting-23962526

Obviously we should ban people in general from teaching children at all seeing as some of them are wrong uns!

See posting stories of people who should never have been near children in first place does not in any way form a coherent argument that all people in the same profession are therefore a danger. }}

Just ask yourself one question. Why are men, wearing women's clothes, demanding, as their right, access to the most vulnerable women and children in society. Just why do they want access to women in prisons, women and children in crisis centres, women's changing rooms, women and children's showers, toddlers in junior schools. Why would any man wish to scare and intimidate women and children in places that they should feel safe, from men. Society has been groomed to think they are 'being kind' and progressive, but this is not progress, it is a scandal waiting to happen.

I am resting my case. Arguments against are just disingenuous or dangerously naive.

{{ I think we are starting from two very different premises Figg.

You seem to believe that any man who wants to transition does so purely so they can exploit and abuse women and children and that they are the vast majority of trans folk and thats why they want to be trans- to abuse.

I believe the vast majority just feel they are female more than male and are more comfortable in that role in society and want recognised in law for their choice, with a tiny minority who will abuse (same as there is in any walk of life and any sexual orintation, as the links I posted above demonstrate).

That there exists a possibility at some point some nasty bugger will abuse a system is not an excuse to tar everyone the same or repress an entire group of peoples rights, there will always be someone who is just evil, same as because religous insitutes have a very dodgy history of abusing their position we dont advocate for the banning of all religion, because there have been teachers who have abused their position you dont ban all teachers. }}

^
This.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ I think we are starting from two very different premises Figg.

You seem to believe that any man who wants to transition does so purely so they can exploit and abuse women and children and that they are the vast majority of trans folk and thats why they want to be trans- to abuse.

I believe the vast majority just feel they are female more than male and are more comfortable in that role in society and want recognised in law for their choice, with a tiny minority who will abuse (same as there is in any walk of life and any sexual orintation, as the links I posted above demonstrate).

That there exists a possibility at some point some nasty bugger will abuse a system is not an excuse to tar everyone the same or repress an entire group of peoples rights, there will always be someone who is just evil, same as because religous insitutes have a very dodgy history of abusing their position we dont advocate for the banning of all religion, because there have been teachers who have abused their position you dont ban all teachers. }}

That first point is totally not true, and it deliberately twists my words. Of course I DO NOT think that men who wish to transition are ALL abusers. That is absurd and you know very well that I have said on MANY occasions that I respect and support adult trans peoples right to do as they please. But most trans people don't want to intimidate and invade women's spaces. I am talking about the weird fringe, the trans activists who send death threats, the autogynephiles, and the predators. One predator is one too many.

It seems to be the fashion that anyone who questions the current ideological dogmas are told that they are right wing nutjobs who want to cancel people. People who questioned RoP were called racists, people who question gender politics are called bigots. not very democratic.

{{ If you believe most trans folk are not abusers why do you wish to punish all trans folk for the small minority who are then? Why do you want them banned from various spaces? Why do you oppose making transistioning fairer and less intrusive in law? Why would you want to ban trans folk from being able to read to children in the safe setting of a public library?
The things you have been advocating do not seem to me to fit with your position its only a small minority who abuse.

Roll on Sunday when we will have 90mins of Chibnall Who to fume at instead! }}

"punish"? in what way punish? You need to elaborate on that word.

The fallacy of your statement is evidenced by the fact that trans people are protected in law already. They have rights and are protected against discrimination.
They do not have the right to use biological women's spaces.

{{ By punish I mean restrict their rights or make transitioning punishing - the current method in the Uk for officialy transitioning is unfair, intrusive mentaly and physically, patronising, takes far too long and requires all sorts of personal information that has nothing to do with transitioning. Which is why the Scottish government is changing the law here to make it less punishing to anyone who wants to transition. You oppose that law change, therefore you are in favour of continuing the current, punishing, system even though that law makes no changes to womens rights or their spaces, as verified by an independent cross party committee.}}

The solution is clear. The only way to protect everyone:



So, after this I am actually - and honestly- looking forward to to seeing Chibnal Who. Very odd feeling.

{{ Well not sure Id go that far- well I am looking forward to this era being over mind you- and hey you never know maybe the only good episode in this entire Chibnall run will be the last, I doubt it, but you know got to hope. }}