Star Wars [3]

Anyone going to see the Solo film? I was invited to see it yesterday by some friends but was busy so will probably see it next week with the GF, pleasantly surprised to hear back from my friends that they all thoroughly enjoyed it (which is reassuring and somewhat surprising considering almost all of them disliked The Last Jedi...I did, but then that was how I met my girlfriend so I'm more forgiving...), apparently nothing remarkable by any means, but a fast paced, action packed romp packed with fan service and set pieces (and apparently rather surprising cameo appearance from a notable Star Wars character of the prequel era...) was never a huge fan of Han Solo as a character, so I was rather indifferent to the idea, but will probably see it if I can score some cheaper tickets...

I liked Han's character. From what I've heard and read about this it sounds like they've taken his "toxic masculinity" and essentially neutered the character. Going to save my next theater experience for Jurassic World. After Last Jedi I'll be passing on all future Star Wars movies. I have to vote with my wallet.

Oh I probably will. My cousin and his girlfriend are suuuper deep into fan-worship of the SW, and it helps fill up gaps in the conversation when we have each other over to stay for dinner.

Besides, I liked TLJ.

I think I'll see Jurassic World or whatever it's called too. Chris Pratt is fun in the role, and it looks dumb enough that I'll be able to enjoy it without being put off by mediocrity.

Enjoyed it alot, well worth the ticket.

Spoiler:

{{Contains full spoilers!!!! }}

Therm Scissorpunch! Big McLargeHuge! Slab Bulkhead! Blast Hardcheese! Bold Bigflank!

I watched "Hans Solo" this afternoon & loved it, yes I did  Im not a Star Wars geek, I just really like the films. The imagination is fantastic, to keep this story going as tho you are relating real history is monumental. At one point in the film Im either hearing things but....

Spoiler:

I loved the guy playing Han, he had the twinkle in his eye & that cheeky confident smile. The girl who played his "love" was a good choice also I thought. She didn't irritate me once & women are funny like that, trust me.

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Wouldn't complain about seeing it again & that's me, not being a Star Wars huge fan Unlike other films this didn't feel like the over 2hours that it was. Good fun!

Isn't his love interest Emilia Clarke?  Do you watch Game of Thrones?

I'm gonna go see it Thursday.

No Halfy I don't watch Game/Thrones Im a bit weird on what I watch on TV, My daughter watches it religiously & nagged me to watch it but, it just didn't happen. I was nagged to watch a TV series called "Lucifer" & what I saw looked interesting ? Being all American I was surprised the lead ( Lucifer) was a Pom Tom Ellis.

I'm with you, az - loved it! I disagree on the love interest, though - this movie didn't need it and would've been twice as good without it. Sorry

Maybe Ringo, but, she did add something to the story, I think. Be interesting to see who she becomes later on, if they keep her going which, I reckon they must now she's contacted Maul ? or will he kill her off ? yeah, maybe that's what will happen ? as no more is said & the only close friend Han has is Chewie until Leia pops up.

I saw Solo last night.
Appropriately enough I went alone.

The romance did not work very well, did it? Clarke pops back in before we even can really get around to missing her, and she's so blase about the whole thing. Hm..

Solo and Chewbacca had a lot more chemistry than Solo and Qu'ra. Chewie is good for some fun humour in these movies, and Solo's faltering Wookie translations amused me in particular.

The plot felt disjointed to me. Was this a sign of the director-swaparoo? Some scenes seemed to transition from tragedy to exposition in an abrupt fashion, like when Beckitt's lover kills herself, and the next scene is of the survivors talking strategy.
But, then again, this is a kid's movie. It really felt like a kid's movie to me. The tragedy was muted, the fight-scenes were comical, and the visual gags simple (as when the toll-robot, complaining about tolls, moves into the street just in time to have his head comically separated from his body. A similar outcome had a far deadlier effect on the sassy L-3 character.)

{{{ Ok saw Solo- here's the very quick bit- as a scifi-ish space heist movie its okish, fun in parts, rarely really engaging character wise but the sort of thing you could happily while away a rainy couple of hours half watching. That's everything good I have to say I am afraid.

And here's the longer crabbit bit!There will be some spoilers- nothing I would consider too major in that all the ones I mention are all crap!

As a Han Solo film its- it's a what the fuck were they thinking?  Who is this guy supposed to be?

Ok before I go off on one first lets consider Han as we met him first in SW. He was good looking, charming, roguish with a sense of humour, and a total selfish, lying, deceitful, shot you first ask questions never, double crossing, gambling, boastful bastard.
He had clearly up to this point spent a life avoiding the law more than following it, doing dodgy deals, smuggling illegal cargo for villainous mafia-style Galactic folk and wherever and whenever possible looking out for himself and trying to make it big. He was in fact exactly the sort of smuggler/pilot you might expect to bump into in a 'wretched hive of scum and villainy' such as Mos Eisley's pub.
That was Han Solo- him becoming a hero doesn't begin till the end of the first SW film were he turns up to help save the day at the Death Star and clears the way for Luke to get his shot- after a films worth of character development.

Young Han in his smuggling days therefore should obviously be an anti-hero. The first thing we should see of him in this film should be him being charming and humorous before double crossing and murdering some poor bastard and stealing all his shit, then legging it with the goods and shooting the pursuing folks with the same sort of charm and humorous quips he would do to storm-troopers later.

What we get is instead is a good guy with rough edges. What? Why is his character never involved in anything morally dubious? Why does he only ever seem to smuggle fuel even when doing a job on a planet known for trading in wookie slaves?!!! Why aren't they trading slaves, why aren't they trading weaponry, illegal droids, hell children, we know there's a slave trade in them it's the reason him and eyebrows escape is because the planet uses child slave labour!- anything that would provide some sort of real moral dilemma for this younger Han who is supposed to be doing bad shit because he is out for no one but himself- and make that the reason for his fecking name if you feel you have to explain it- he earns it off those who come to know of him because he trusts no-one and is in it solely for himself, hence the nickname Han Solo (also making his eventually having a buddy in Chewie an actual character development thing not a collect-em up of stuff we know Han has later and doing it with a cheap reveal)- instead he gets his name off some bloody Emperial bureaucrat cracking a shit joke because Han doesn't have a family.  Heh? What? That was the best thing they could think of?- he gets his name because of paperwork. That's funny in a Douglas Adams story, its pretty bloody boring for Han Solo though!

So basically Han has the wrong character, the actor who plays him has about three acting expressions none of which are magnetism, charm, or screen presence which you kind of need to be Han, and the story has no character development in it for him worth a crap because in these films its like we get Han's personality from Return of the Jedi, only when he should be being a utter selfish bastard.

I can't complain crabbitly about this fact enough as I cant fathom how they missed the fact young Han in his smuggling days was a double crossing, no-good, thieving, lying scoundrel, but charming with it. This version is just to good and wholesome.

Next item on the crabbit list- Lando- I thought he was doing ok till he went all Captain Jack.  What? Why? For what purpose other than just because? No objection to a bi or pan sexual person but someone who clearly wasn't? Why Lando? Write your own character make them whatever the hell you like. In Empire from the moment Lando sets eyes on Leia its bulge in the tight trousers time and he is into that princess arse clear as day, turns on the charm to 11.
He shows not the slightest sexual interest in either her blonde haired blue eyed farm boy friend or in Han the roguish bad-boy or in Chewwy for that matter, if he is pan and experimental and doesn't mind getting hair in his mouth. But how does this fit his established character? Why is he not heterosexual when he so clearly is only heterosexual in his later life? Can you get sex orientation programs in the SW universe? What's going on?

As to the rest of it- its a fairly average heist movie in space with a not really awful but 'why is it even here?' romance tagged in with eyebrows. There's everything you'd expect including Woody Harrilson as the father figure/boss lord that takes Han under his wing- if you think you can guess how that might go then yes, yawn, your right.

And instead of Han having a character, an arc or any issues or moral dilemma's worth a shit his choice of lifestyle might bring up we instead just get Han Solo gets his stuff you know he has later- so he gets his blaster, he gets Chewwy, he gets the Falcon ect ect its just a checklist of what did he have or reference in SW we can shove in here- so we get the Kessel run he said he did really fast (turns out he didn't he just cheated- you can't claim your the fastest round a course if you cut out half the course!) but the whole thing is just a checklist of items and references to make in-place of a script or character development.
Even the spectacle is fairly low key, I got bored during the extended cgi chase sequence and as to the big reveal when person whose name I couldn't be bothered even remembering or googling reveals themselves- they do know subverting expectations is not actually the same thing narratively as a twist? You see a twist requires a narrative reason to happen, a set up that fools the viewer into thinking the opposite of what will be revealed and then a pay off- not just a pay off like 'tada bet you weren't expecting that then!'


If you forget utterly this has anything to do with SW and pretend the film is called 'Blando the McGuffin Collector Robs Some Space Shit With Some Forgettable People Whose Names You'll Struggle To Recall (but nothing to illegal or morally dubious he just does fuel really- yeah Disney!)' then yeah you could probably go along for the ride and be mildly entertained.

If you want a good film looking at the character of a younger Han Solo in his bad boy days and how he got to the point we see him at in SW being pursued by Bounty Hunters and in it well passed his mates hairy balls  with Jabba, then this is definitely not that film. Or anything like it. Or very good. }}}

Han is too nice throughout most of this movie, but by the end of the film he has at least picked up some negative traits. There is a character arc here. The predictable and underwhelming betrayals in the film's third act clearly teach him some lessons about trusting other people. He does, well, he does shoot first, after all. The problem is, I think, that we don't really see Han change as much as we see these things happen to him that should make him change. It's like he's too upbeat, too happy, to have serious character development.

Was it an Empereal bureacrat? Or an Imperial one?

What do you mean exactly Petty by Lando "going Captain Jack"?

As to pansexuality?? Where did that come up in the film? He was disinterested sexually in the droid. She was interested in him, not the other way around.

What do you mean exactly Petty by Lando "going Captain Jack"?

As to pansexuality?? Where did that come up in the film?- Forest

{{ I admit to bringing some prior knowledge to this one so I was looking out for it- but it is there in the performance, looks ect. Captain Jack was pansexual hence the reference.

Here's the actor on the matter-

'There’s so many things to have sex with. I mean, serious. I didn’t think that was that weird. Yeah, he’s coming on to everybody. I mean, yeah, whatever. He’s like having like a ’70s swing — yeah. It just didn’t seem that weird to me ’cause I feel like if you’re in space it’s kind of like, the door is open! It’s like, no only guys or girls. No, it’s anything. This thing is literally a blob. Are you a man or a woman? Like, who cares? Have good time out here.'

and the writers- (in response to being asked if Lando was pan-sexual -) '“I would say yes,” Jonathan Kasdan emphatically said. "There’s a fluidity to Donald and Billy Dee’s [portrayal of Lando’s] sexuality,” Kasdan continued. “I mean, I would have loved to have gotten a more explicitly LGBT character into this movie'- and the bit that bothers me more than the amount of it they got in this particular film-  'I don’t know where it will go.”

Or in other words its now an established part of Lando's character- he is pansexual- and if we get more Lando in other films that's how he will now be portrayed.


'He does, well, he does shoot first, after all.'- Forest

That did not strike me as any sort of character moment or development- just another in what would be a long predictable series of references to stuff Han does or has in later films. It felt to me watching that the way this film had been constructed was to first sit down and watch every scene with Han in it and write down everything then make it a scene in this film. Hans got a cool blaster and the kids pay extra cash for it in the SW games so lets make that a scene, chuck in meeting Chewie and getting the Falcon off Lando- that's three major fan service scenes done- he mentions the Kessle run or whatever its called so that's the finale sorted, he was a smuggler but we dont want doing anything actually bad as its Disney now so lets make him smuggle fuel, but still do it like a big heist movie and then we can chuck in some typical double crosses and betrayals that will pass for a plot instead of writing one, and it never occurred to them once it seems to build the story around the character of Han instead, sadly. }}

I get that you want to see a more edgier, ducking & diving Han but, I can help but feel that why have Harrison Ford play him then. Harrison Ford has not in my memory played a nasty evil bastard ?  Every film Ive seen him in he wins you over to him, either because you feel sorry for him or warm to his easy going personality. Harrison Ford right from the beginning was a "Im gonna save my own ass" guy but not merciless, cold blooded, no remorse killer ? Admittedly thinking of himself first but, Several times you could see him fighting with his inner conscience. And maybe he did use the ladies to get what he wanted but, he didn't torture them or beat them, in fact he represented a lot of the men today. He still had a soft spot in his heart & you felt it. To my thoughts if you want a sharper tool in the shed then a sharper actor should have taken the role. There was obviously something Lucas saw in Harrison Ford that made he say " There's Han Solo" ??  The bit I found " oh yeah ??" was the ease in which Snoke was killed. Too easy in my book. That made it feel childlike. Lets not scare the kiddies.


Meanest I remember ? " What Lies Beneath "

{{{ You can do bad guy with charm and still make it fun and engaging without ruining Han- the series Firefly was all about a group of space crims doing heists and dodging the authorities, they were a crew of criminals, murderers, chancers and had bags of charm and were huge amounts of fun to watch.
In the scene in SW where we first meet Han it ends with him ruthlessly killing the bounty hunter sent after him, and that scene opens with Obi lopping someone's arm off- original SW was not shy of showing that this universe had its dark corners- and Han was from one of those dark corners- we meet him literally in a dark corner in a place Obi described as a 'den of scum and villainy'.
I'm not saying he should be evil- thats too far the other way- but he should be more dodgy and up to a hell of a lot more dodgy shit than just stealing some fuel. If he had say been smuggling slaves we'd have an interesting character piece given his supposed background around his indifference, and some proper meaning and development when he meets and befriends Chewie, also a race used for slavery. Or if he was smuggling arms have him smuggling to rebels, giving the impressions he is a good guy, then have him supplying arms to the Empire too, or betraying them to the Empire for a double payday, showing in fact he just goes where the best money is setting up that trait for the later films where he just wants paid for saving Leia so he can clear his debts with Jabba not for any struggle or cause. There is just so much more could have been done here potentially than the flat dull film we get.  }}}

Believe it or not I actually agree with you Im just seeing what can be stretched from all this. I agree Disney fucked up with SW. We don't live in Whoville. Star Wars is sci-fi fantasy & the name says it all Star wars ? duh ! I honestly would prefer arms lopped off & a bit of blood spillage not the "lets keep it cosy for the whole family", well go watch The Little Mermaid or something ! I haven't seen Firefly, sheltered upbringing & all that but war is just that.....war equals fighting equals killing in any way to defeat the foe so blood, guts, slicing & dicing will be a big part of it. After all you don't go up to a bad guy, tap him on the shoulder & say " by the way, your dead old chum". We don't do glove slapping & lacy shirts. I did like the film a lot, I did like the guy who played Han, I still think he caught his character but, if he was allowed to run with it & not reign in the darker bits I still think we would have had a better film for sure. It felt more like "Fools & Horses" instead of "Peaky Blinders"

I think you're taking Han to far, Petty: he would not deal in slaves. He's about freedom, and slavery would not be his thing. If he sold arms to the Empire it would only be in the murky way that it's done in Syriana where you're not sure who is one which side. Remember that in an empire smuggling is mainly about avoiding tariffs and taxes; so while smuggling fuel is too tame to be interesting he could be smuggling liquor or the equivalent.

he would not deal in slaves. He's about freedom, and slavery would not be his thing.- Hlafy

{{By the time we meet him in Sw yes- but the whole point of showing a young Han surely is to explore who he was and how he got to the point he was in SW? People change- I did all sorts of mental and morally dubious things in my twenties I would never do now or even think of doing now.
Had Han started off smuggling really illegally shit- people, arms ect- then through the events of the film, meeting and befriending a wookie from a slave race he comes to change his outlook, not making him quite like the Han we meet yet, but clearly setting him on the way to be primed for when he runs into Luke ect to join the rebels. At least there is a character story there rather than what we got which is more a Han collects up stuff and gets shit he is famous for later. }}}

{{{Firefly would be my mental template for a Han film. Basically its the best sci-fi to come out of America since ST- so obviously Fox cancelled it before it even aired and then showed the episodes out of order so no one could follow the plot and they could justify having cancelled the best thing they ever made- which is its own sort of evil genius. 
On the plus side theres only about 12 episodes and a sequel film for you to watch!- I recommend the series in-particular highly- very highly- its pure entertainment but still retains a darker criminal edge to it and has plenty to say- just like a Han film should but doesn't. }}}

havent seen it yet but I still get what Petty says about him being too good at the beginning and not going through much of a character change. I imagine they were playing it safe, because I remember Han Solo, who was older by the time we see him in the original films, was already amoral and edging on the dodgy when it came to females, (but that might be the 70s), but still he wasn't 'a good guy' he was charming and a wee bit of a twat, but went on to redeem himself loads.

IL be happy to give Firefly a go. I was speaking with my son over Han as we both saw the film together & I wondered, IF you were not a SW fan, IF you had not heard of SW, what would entice you to see that film as opposed to another film showing either in the same cinema or a cinema elsewhere ? Considering the price of tickets & a night out what would be the draw ? The plot is a bit slim, the love interest is so easy to get over & forget youde get more from a Pirelli car mechanics calendar. Luke acting all "wild man of the woods" on an island, not far from you I suspect Petty , being harassed by a girl who is ? does what ? needs why ? Woody Harrelson stating there's no coming back.....from what ? to where ? all tub & no yoghurt, I was not convinced by his demeaner, sounded more like a drunk who was telling a tale for the next drink. There was no menace when Beckett had to face Dryden Vos ? I thought Dryden was the uber scary guy ?? A bit of brotherly love & all is fine again yet, Qi'ra makes out to Han that Dryden is not to be messed with & we should all shit our pants ? Im confused & in a way of not caring. yet I liked the film I really liked Alden Ehrenreich. I could believe this was a younger Han tho I would have liked to see how it was he became such a great pilot ?? He bragged about it & he did show some skill ? so, give me that episode in his life. Apart from that I liked the film, & the cute puffin like..things ! awh !!!! We didn't see how Chewie got one for dinner did we ? we saw the "puss in Boots" cutesy stare tho from puffin thing just as Chewie was about to eat his brother,( cousin, uncle, who knows ? )

{{I can see if it comes on your tv in 6 month or a years time and there's nothing better to do its a fine enough way to while away a couple of hours- its harmless fluff in that sense. Its just as a Han Solo film there is so much potential that is wasted because its all so lazy- Hans a smuggler make it a heist movie- half your films written there in terms of plot just by following the usual heist scenarios, then they just chucked in a lot of scenes where Han gets stuff he has later or meets folk he knows later or references stuff he mentions later and that's pretty much all you've got.
Not unwatchable or anything, not appallingly bad, just so meh I can't see any reason for paying up the cash and seeing this in the cinema over catching it on TV when it inevitably gets there. Its not really a big cinema film and that's a terrible thing to say of a SW film. }}}