China as money lender

by **Orwell** Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:42 pm

It's my understanding that China is a Communist country. The rhetoric I'm historically aware of suggests Communism does not generally support Capitalism.

If the above synopsis is in any way accurate, and with the American Election in mind, I'm keen to know the answer to three questions.

1. How much money does America owe China for loans?

2. How did China raise the loan money in the first place?

3. If China is so cash wealthy, should America be reviewing it's politics and economies with the view of ending national debt?

by David H Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:11 am

Orwell wrote:It's my understanding that China is a Communist country. The rhetoric I'm historically aware of suggests Communism does not generally support Capitalism.

If you're at all interested in this stuff Orwell, I highly recommend the book "Debt: the first 5,000 years" by David Graeber. I guarantee it will make you rethink what you thought you knew about world and local economics. Here's a quick cut/paste from Wikipedia' synopsis on real communism:

The concept of "everyday communism"

In Debt: The First 5,000 Years, Graeber proposes a concept of "everyday communism" which he defines, when analysing peasant lives as "The peasants" visions of communistic brotherhood did not come out of nowhere. They were rooted in real daily experience: of the maintenance of common fields and forests, of everyday cooperation and neighborly solidarity. It is out of such homely experience of everyday communism that grand mythic visions are always built."Also "Society was rooted above in the "love and amity" of friends and kin, and it found expression in all those forms of everyday communism (helping neighbors with chores, providing milk or cheese for old widows) that were seen to flow from it."

As for your questions,
1) It's a little rude to ask someone about the details of their indebtedness, don't you think? Suspect

2) Easy! Step #1 We ship them our garbage for free. Step #2 They recycle it and sell it back to us for a profit. Step #3 We throw it away. Step #4 Repeat step #1.
3)That's a good question for our next president. Nod

by halfwise Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:49 am

Most of the debt is the wealthy Chinese (made rich largely off our money btw (Walmart, I'm looking at you)) buying US government bonds as a safe investment. There's no rules against it, but maybe if it had been thought through, only citizens should be allowed to buy government bonds. I suppose it's possible the chinese government bought the bonds Shocked

and wouldn't that be something!

by **Orwell** Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:25 am

Seems I'll have to take a look at that book, Dave - seeing you can't synthesise an answer in a quick post!! Mad

- and are not even willing to face up to your indebtedness to the Chinese... Razz

I never assumed your borrowings from the Chinese as being in any way illegal, Halfy... Shrugging

I was just keen to know why the need to borrow, and how the Chinese managed to find the money to lend it to you... Though I presume a certain book - no doubt long, detailed and complicated Sad

- will 'larn' me on the subject, damnabbit! Suspect

by halfwise Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:37 am

I see you didn't quite understand what's going on with government bonds. They are out there for anyone to buy. There's no government intent whatsoever except perhaps in the number issued. They don't pay attention to who buys them, but I'm thinking it might be good economic policy to say only your own citizens can loan money to the government via the free market system; foreign debt should be controlled.

by **Orwell** Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:31 am

Ha! Morally illegal then??? (I'm no economist - or whatever it is I need to be just here... scratch

) --- Um.... Does anyone in America actually want to buy these bond things? Sounds a scam! cyclops

Read intro on a free Pdf on the Internet, Dave. Fascinating. The Myth of Barter is calling me now! Fancy me reading something about finance thingees without actually expiring! But the Author makes it all sound all historical amd interesting, and ethically challenging!!! Makes you think! Wow! But I do hope there are no chapters on actual mathematics though... Counting, I mean... pale

by **Orwell** Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:35 am

Oh yeah, Dave, your above quote about China is already making more sense. Very Happy

by David H Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:58 am

I just looked up some numbers.
The US national debt is apparently $14,300,000,000,000.
Of that, the Chinese own about $ 1,200,000,000,000.
The Japanese own another $ 912,000,000,000.
And the UK owns another $ 347,000,000,000.

by **Orwell** Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:36 am

I assume a lot of other countries and individuals have lent you people money --- hey! Shocked

I better check my piggy bank... Shocked

My piggy bank!!! Well, I'll need not get that thirty eight cents back.. And there's my missus thinking it a good investment... America... Oh pish!!! Sad

by Mrs Figg Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:35 pm

I would like to borrow from China.

by halfwise Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:58 pm

I'm posting here because otherwise people would mistake the meaning of the title "Islamic Finance." The basic tenent of Islamic finance is that moneylenders can't collect interest, they can only collect a portion of the profits. So Banks would only make loans they believe in, and do everything they can to support the businesses they loan to. I'm a big believer in it, and in the clip below some banker is saying it would have prevented the crash of 2008:

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/video/islamic-finance-could-averted-2008-025100629.html

China as money lender

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