LOTR - Fellowship of the Ring - Screencap Thingie

A) How much is Frodo enjoying this?

B) Is Sam assisting Frodo, or is he "fending for himself"?

C) Is this a suitable scene in a fantasy movie?

D) Other

Edit: Damn, wrong forum - This forum and the x-rated Hobbit forum are right next to eachother in my favourites list

A likely excuse Im not falling for it.
Happy New Year Ringo

Ringdrotten wrote:

A) How much is Frodo enjoying this?

B) Is Sam assisting Frodo, or is he "fending for himself"?

C) Is this a suitable scene in a fantasy movie?

D) Other

Edit: Damn, wrong forum - This forum and the x-rated Hobbit forum are right next to eachother in my favourites list

An honest mistake, Figg

The same to you, az

I'm afraid to see what you post on the dwarf-spanking site.

who is doing the next one? and no rudery please.

OK- Ill go look for a screenshot- and I promise I'll stick to the prologue for now and get to the all important grass length discussion too soon- don't want to spoil what everyone knows will be the crux of the overall debate about these films by rushing into it!

go for it!

Right. I am sort of going to cheat by putting up two screenshots- but they are linked as its the same fight.

First the bad guys.



1. What did you first think when you saw the orcs? Did they match your expectations? If you had never read the book what did you think they were meant to be? Did the pointy ears give you any link between them and elves?

2. What do you think of the design in comparison to the later orcs in the trilogy and with the cgi orcs of TH trilogy?

And the good guys-



1. What did you think of the elves appearance, armour and weaponry?

2. How did you feel about them having being apparently trained in North Korea so that they all act as one? And what, if anything, did you think of the orc front line hitting the elvish front line at just the right angle for them to pull off a cool synchronised upwards swing from background to forefront of shot? Do you think in mainstream cinema logic can be jettisoned for a shot that engages the audience or catches their attention? Is it a 'fair' trade off?

3. What do you think of the lighting in this scene? Is Mordor too brightly lit? What do you think of the choices of colour for both sides in terms of framing and lighting?

1. What did you first think when you saw the orcs? Did they match your expectations? If you had never read the book what did you think they were meant to be? Did the pointy ears give you any link between them and elves?

I had no expectations of orcs in detail, but I thought the design of these were superb.

2. What do you think of the design in comparison to the later orcs in the trilogy and with the cgi orcs of TH trilogy?

Its unbelievable how the quality in design has deteriorated from LOTR to TH. Mostly due to the use of cgi.

1. What did you think of the elves appearance, armour and weaponry?

I had never seen Elves before so this was my first glimpse. have to say I found it stunning. The weaponry was very reminiscent of Edward Burne-Jones.



2. How did you feel about them having being apparently trained in North Korea so that they all act as one? And what, if anything, did you think of the orc front line hitting the elvish front line at just the right angle for them to pull off a cool synchronised upwards swing from background to forefront of shot? Do you think in mainstream cinema logic can be jettisoned for a shot that engages the audience or catches their attention? Is it a 'fair' trade off?

loved it

3. What do you think of the lighting in this scene? Is Mordor too brightly lit? What do you think of the choices of colour for both sides in terms of framing and lighting?

its beautiful

1. What did you first think when you saw the orcs? Did they match your expectations? If you had never read the book what did you think they were meant to be? Did the pointy ears give you any link between them and elves?

I always thought of orcs of being more scaly rather than slimy, not sure why since Tolkien never mentions scales. It's probably the claws that gave me that impression.

2. What do you think of the design in comparison to the later orcs in the trilogy and with the cgi orcs of TH trilogy?

I though these were better than the later incarnations.

1. What did you think of the elves appearance, armour and weaponry?

They looked superb

2. How did you feel about them having being apparently trained in North Korea so that they all act as one? And what, if anything, did you think of the orc front line hitting the elvish front line at just the right angle for them to pull off a cool synchronised upwards swing from background to forefront of shot? Do you think in mainstream cinema logic can be jettisoned for a shot that engages the audience or catches their attention? Is it a 'fair' trade off?

For a representative vignette of a legendary past I thought it was fine, though it did look a bit funny.

3. What do you think of the lighting in this scene? Is Mordor too brightly lit? What do you think of the choices of colour for both sides in terms of framing and lighting?

Color and lighting worked for a mythylogical feel; if the movie had continued that way I'd be a bit peeved.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Right. I am sort of going to cheat by putting up two screenshots- but they are linked as its the same fight.

First the bad guys.



1. What did you first think when you saw the orcs? Did they match your expectations? If you had never read the book what did you think they were meant to be? Did the pointy ears give you any link between them and elves?

Not what I pictured, perhaps, but maybe what I pictured was wrong. I remember the mention of a "hairy ear" in the book so I thought of orcs as being very hirsute and having very animalistic faces. The movie interpretation seems logical enough since orcs are corruptions of elves. Still, the orcs in the movie strike me as at least a little cheesy. And that nail or piton or whatever pressed onto a squashed nose and fastened with staples looks awfully painful.

2. What do you think of the design in comparison to the later orcs in the trilogy and with the cgi orcs of TH trilogy?

They all look equally cheesy.

And the good guys-



1. What did you think of the elves appearance, armour and weaponry?

Looks pretty keen, I must say. Still, I don't think Tolkien envisioned the swords resembling katanas.

2. How did you feel about them having being apparently trained in North Korea so that they all act as one? And what, if anything, did you think of the orc front line hitting the elvish front line at just the right angle for them to pull off a cool synchronised upwards swing from background to forefront of shot? Do you think in mainstream cinema logic can be jettisoned for a shot that engages the audience or catches their attention? Is it a 'fair' trade off?

It looks cool but is also silly. It's kind of like doing the Wave on a battlefield; real war doesn't work like that. Also, maybe I'm way off base here, but aren't the elves the invaders here, technically? Shouldn't they be the ones advancing? Don't want to nitpick this thing to death but something about it strikes me as a bit off (besides the synchronized slashing).

3. What do you think of the lighting in this scene? Is Mordor too brightly lit? What do you think of the choices of colour for both sides in terms of framing and lighting?

Lighting looks okay here.

1. What did you first think when you saw the orcs? Did they match your expectations? If you had never read the book what did you think they were meant to be? Did the pointy ears give you any link between them and elves?

I can't really answer this one because I had already seen this and several other scenes from the movies via the video games before reading the book. I don't remember if I paid any attention to the pointy ears before reading The Silmarillion since that all occurred when I was very young.

2. What do you think of the design in comparison to the later orcs in the trilogy and with the cgi orcs of TH trilogy?

These guys have always looked like CGI to me, though I suspect that's just the filter or whatever. The faces look similar enough to the Third Age Mordor orcs we see, but I felt that these were more bestial than disorganized. But to be honest that is mainly coming from the tie-in book Weapons and Warfare more than it is from the movie itself.

1. What did you think of the elves appearance, armour and weaponry?

A lot of the Elven weapons feel sorta Japanese, katana-inspired. Arwen's sword is probably the clearest example of this. Doesn't really feel like something Tolkien would have done but it does give the Elves a unique visual style compared to human and orcish weapons so I think it works well enough.

2. How did you feel about them having being apparently trained in North Korea so that they all act as one? And what, if anything, did you think of the orc front line hitting the elvish front line at just the right angle for them to pull off a cool synchronised upwards swing from background to forefront of shot? Do you think in mainstream cinema logic can be jettisoned for a shot that engages the audience or catches their attention? Is it a 'fair' trade off?

I think the perfect synchronicity thing is just part of the whole "elves are perfect demigods" thing getting pushed really hard by PJ and Co. Of course his Elves are going to be perfect examples of martial discipline. I think the North Korea comparison is unfair though. The twirly swords move could very easily have been inspired by the opening credits of A Few Good Men:



This really only bugs me because PJ is not nearly as interested (or able?) to show the Elves as masters of non-military affairs as well.

3. What do you think of the lighting in this scene? Is Mordor too brightly lit? What do you think of the choices of colour for both sides in terms of framing and lighting?

I was gonna go "aha! the battle took place just outside Mordor" before remembering a half-second later that the film moved it to "the slopes of Mount Doom". Darn.

the film moved it to "the slopes of Mount Doom".- Eldo

This has always annoyed me, apart from it being too well lit for the slopes of Mt Doom, what really bugs me is there is no tie in to the Dead Marshes any more- even though they still have Smeagol reference the battle when they are in the Dead Marshes as if it did happen there in the film Did they forget they had changed it? Did they just not care it didn't actually make sense or tie together any more? 

I can't really answer this one because I had already seen this and several other scenes from the movies via the video games before reading the book.

I don't think anything displays generational differences more than this one matter-of-fact note.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:This has always annoyed me, apart from it being too well lit for the slopes of Mt Doom, what really bugs me is there is no tie in to the Dead Marshes any more- even though they still have Smeagol reference the battle when they are in the Dead Marshes as if it did happen there in the film Did they forget they had changed it? Did they just not care it didn't actually make sense or tie together any more? 

Y'know, this honestly never occurred to me (or if it did, I'd forgotten about it).  Geez, PJ.

halfwise wrote:I don't think anything displays generational differences more than this one matter-of-fact note.  

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

1. What did you first think when you saw the orcs? Did they match your expectations? If you had never read the book what did you think they were meant to be? Did the pointy ears give you any link between them and elves?
Well there's no getting it wrong that they are the "baddies" ( unless you live near a gypsy caravan park ) I didnt at that time connect them to Elves tho.

2. What do you think of the design in comparison to the later orcs in the trilogy and with the cgi orcs of TH trilogy?
I think these Orcs seem more real,I believe that they can be hurt & killed & that they would bleed blood

. What did you think of the elves appearance, armour and weaponry?
They did look very "polished" & ready for battle. Lines made up in anticipation of how the fight would go. The gold armour is a touch Greek God but I like it, the swords remind me of Japanese or Scimitars ?

2. How did you feel about them having being apparently trained in North Korea so that they all act as one? And what, if anything, did you think of the orc front line hitting the elvish front line at just the right angle for them to pull off a cool synchronised upwards swing from background to forefront of shot? Do you think in mainstream cinema logic can be jettisoned for a shot that engages the audience or catches their attention? Is it a 'fair' trade off?

I dont think I mind the training they had, I would assume Elves of a good age should be synchronized & not a sloppy rabble. The sword flinging might be a bit tight I would have thought ? But I spose a little "drama" was needed to engage the audience & get them thinking this is no ordinary fight.

3. What do you think of the lighting in this scene? Is Mordor too brightly lit? What do you think of the choices of colour for both sides in terms of framing and lighting?

I would have liked it to slowly lighten up, just slowly, but not by too much

Eldorion wrote:

Pettytyrant101 wrote:This has always annoyed me, apart from it being too well lit for the slopes of Mt Doom, what really bugs me is there is no tie in to the Dead Marshes any more- even though they still have Smeagol reference the battle when they are in the Dead Marshes as if it did happen there in the film Did they forget they had changed it? Did they just not care it didn't actually make sense or tie together any more? 

Y'know, this honestly never occurred to me (or if it did, I'd forgotten about it).  Geez, PJ.

halfwise wrote:I don't think anything displays generational differences more than this one matter-of-fact note.  

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

srsly how can there be any tie in to the Dead Marshes during the prologue? in a few seconds of screen time?

in a few seconds of screen time?- Figg

Um remove the line of dialogue 'on the slopes of Mt Doom' and set the battle on the Dagorland and set the bit where Sauron comes forth at the siege on the Black Gates with Mt Doom blazing in the background- exact same screen time and one less line of dialogue. So easily really.

but less effective cinematically

No reason why- there a lot of big sweeping shots in the prologue- just change the establishing sweeping shot over the slopes of Mordor to the front line of elves with a sweeping shot over the battleground of the Dagporland towards the Black Gate and the front line of elves with all your orcs pouring out the Gate- just as spectacularly visual and with the added benefit when Frodo and Sam get to the Dead Marshes and the Gate the astute viewer will have a eureka moment where they realise its the same place and who the dead are. As well as echoing the final battle when the orcs pour out of the Black gate to surround Aragorn and co.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Right. I am sort of going to cheat by putting up two screenshots- but they are linked as its the same fight.

First the bad guys.



1. What did you first think when you saw the orcs? Did they match your expectations? If you had never read the book what did you think they were meant to be? Did the pointy ears give you any link between them and elves?

2. What do you think of the design in comparison to the later orcs in the trilogy and with the cgi orcs of TH trilogy?

1. I hadn't read the books at the time (didn't read LOTR all the way through until 2007) so I had no pre-conceived notions, (as a fan of Warhammer 40k as a kid orcs to me were big green Hulky dudes with machine guns) but I liked the designs, though they come across as generic bad guy minion creatures rather than fallen Elves (still better than Bakshi's hairy gits wearing pillowcases orcs tho...), I doubt I picked on on the pointy ears link with the elves at the time...are pointy ears elves canon to the books? I don't actually remember reading this anywhere in LOTR

2. Definitely prefer the designs here, they look mouldy/slimy and 'lived in' creatures of malice, the Orcs in TH are rather more lifeless and generic i.m.o.

1. What did you think of the elves appearance, armour and weaponry?

2. How did you feel about them having being apparently trained in North Korea so that they all act as one? And what, if anything, did you think of the orc front line hitting the elvish front line at just the right angle for them to pull off a cool synchronised upwards swing from background to forefront of shot? Do you think in mainstream cinema logic can be jettisoned for a shot that engages the audience or catches their attention? Is it a 'fair' trade off?

3. What do you think of the lighting in this scene? Is Mordor too brightly lit? What do you think of the choices of colour for both sides in terms of framing and lighting?

1. I appreciate the ideas behind the designs of the Elves-lots of curved angles and crosscutting armour, gives of a sense of nature and age, but I'm not entirely sure whether curved katana like swords, and neck-high longbows would be that practical in a battle...maybe the designs are a bit too finessed? Interesting to note the designs for Haldir's woodelves in TT are fairly similar suggesting that the Elves (of all kindreds) had reached a cultural/techincal peak in warfare or had stagnated into a holding pattern of sorts.

2. It looks a bit daft and over the top, but hey it's cool shot and catches the audiences attention, arguably it also makes Legolas's crazy that follow slighty more believable, PJ established early on that Elven Warriors were apparently trained in the art of synchronized ninja dancing. Less easy to excuse for me was the shot of the Elves firing the arrows directly past/over Elrond's head

3.I like the lighting in the opening alot, a good balance of darkness and warmth, sorta reminds of Donato Giancola's work for some reason...

Again, I do understand the complaint that the scene might be brightyl lit...but it's probably not something most viewers would have noticed, at the time 12 yr old me was too busy staring in wide eyed awe at the screen to nitpick anything.