continuing proofs America is wacko [3]

In the ongoing gun debate it's interesting to see the Brits are now arguing some of the same points we've gone back and forth with here.

Rural police forces consider giving guns to regular officers
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/07/rural-police-forces-consider-giving-guns-to-regular-officers

Alison Hernandez, Devon and Cornwall’s police and crime commissioner, suggested in June that farmers and other local gun owners could help stretched police tackle any armed terrorist attack.

At some point you've got to change your model as conditions change.

I heard my Chinese semi-not-really girlfriend explaining to her fresh-off-the-boat cousin what it meant to be an American.  It was pretty amazing because in her quest to stay in America she's gone from studying bio-engineering to law to business;  had all the differing philosophies drilled into her, and could lay it out with the flawless poise of a courtroom lawyer.  I really wish I had recorded it for posterity, for it was jaw-dropping with the insight of a foreigner arguing for her adopted county.  Lots of things I could say, but to stay on topic...she pointed out that in places like China there was one law throughout the land, and it had to fit a farmer in Sichuan province as well as a lawyer in Beijing.  But American law with its principle of federalism recognized that "a farmer in Pennsylvania needs one kind of shit, while a businessman in Manhattan needs to be governed by a whole different kind of shit.  There's different scopes of shit in American law because not everyone has the same situation and they need to apply what works best for them. America recognizes individuals in a way Asia does not."

{{I've never had a problem with response units and special units of police being armed in the UK- its sensible. But arming the general bobby on the beat is another matter. Guns should be in the hands of those trained specifically to use them and who train all the time in their use and tactics for use.

When it comes to flexibility in the law- in Scotland its very hard to get a gun. If I wanted for example to legally buy a shotgun- I simply couldn't- the law prevents me from doing so as I dont meet any criteria for owning one-I am not a member of a gun range, its not for sport, its not for work, I dont have the facilities for safe storage of it and ammo ect- so as far as the law is concerned I have no legitimate reason to need a shotgun so I cant have one- and I'm fine with that- I don't have a good reason to own one ( I dont even meet the criteria for legally owning an air pistol)
If I was Dave on the otherhand and had a farm, that would be a different matter, or if I was gamekeeper or some such- then the law recognizes the need and views it as a tool- though there are still plenty rules on storage and usage ect }}

Guns should be in the hands of those trained specifically to use them and who train all the time in their use and tactics for use.

Training is important, but it's a double edged sword depending on what you're being trained for. It seems some departments are now being trained more for quick-draw and less for deescalation than a decade ago.

I have a friend who works on the ferry system which requires emergency response training for all their employees because if something happens when they're underway, professional police and medical aid probably isn't going to be available.

Interestingly, their professional instructors have done almost no training for an Islamic terrorist attack, but at least three on how to deal with amped up police officers. That says a lot about the kinds of risks they most commonly encounter...

Interestingly, their professional instructors have done almost no training for an Islamic terrorist attack, but at least three on how to deal with amped up police officers. That says a lot about the kinds of risks they most commonly encounter... Suspect

Wha...?

Despite it all, gotta love this country.

https://www.sfgate.com/news/politics/article/Wet-hot-Washington-Stormy-Daniels-strips-near-13061743.php

http://time.com/5440128/american-sailors-marines-drank-iceland-beer/

that's our boys!

Greatest country in the world. Though to be fair, look at who they chose to interview, compare clothes of interviewees in each country.

But lets be fair about the tax cuts: Even if the richest 1% have the percentage of taxes cut less, they still save more money. Nobody ever makes it clear whether they are talking about net amounts or percentage amounts, making the discussions sort of half-assed.

Might be something for David. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/02/health/grocery-taxes-oregon-washington-soda-tax.html?smid=tw-nytimesbusiness&smtyp=cur

Not sure that has much effect on Dave, unless cranberry juice mixes are classed with soda - understandable since the sugar levels are nearly the same.

Well, hell, I'd rather see them all drinking cranberry juice, but not voting against something that does not exist to aid the big soft drink player? Might be something a NW cranberry farmer might be interesting in.

For me the effect on the cranberry juice market is secondary.

In general I'm pretty strongly in favor of the ability of local governments to pass specific local taxes to fund local programs. That's particularly important in rural areas where we have a very limited tax base.

However I'm NOT a fan of using taxes as a hammer to force a social change such as diet. That almost always disproportionately hurts people who are most in need of help.

In this case I think the language of the initiative is written too broadly for me to be comfortable that it wouldn't do more harm than good.  Is that what you were wondering Blue?

Pretty much. Mostly just spread the awareness of the forces behind the intiative. As far as I understand the question on the ballot is not on whether or not to have tax on sugar in products, but whether local deliberative democracy should be ruled out from making that deliberation or not.

The Washington State initiative process was created to allow for citizens to have direct input into the lawmaking process. The very first initiative which passed in the late 1930's allowed for the formation of Public Utility Districts which in effect broke the monopoly of the private electric companies of the time and allowed for something like public co-operatives. Now the amount of large corporate money that's pouring into the initiative process has turned the intent of the process upside down....

This should perhaps be in the election thread, but....

https://www.yahoo.com/news/dennis-hof-dead-brothel-owner-083109134.html

https://www.yahoo.com/news/watch-easter-bunny-throw-punches-165325539.html

I just realized this thread should probably not be in the serious thread, but whatever.

Anyway, though I know all the main characters by name, I've never heard this story before!

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/americas-first-banned-book

{{ So the USA have decided that the illegal Israeli occupation and settlement of Palistinian land is not in fact illegal at all.

Fine, can someone now explain to me how this doesnt legitimise Putins seizure and occupation of Ukraine?

I mean in both cases a larger superior military force, backed by nukes, invades land they make a historic claim on, but which other people have been living on thinking its their land for generations, and then uses brute force, violence and might to take it over and occupy it.

Can anyone tell me what the difference is? And why America says Israel violence good, Russian bad? }}

Didn't we explain this months ago?

{{ Shouldnt think so given the US only declared the settlements 'legal' yesterday, legitmising Putin too as a byproduct.

But then my drunken memory is probably not the best guide! }}

https://www.hobbitmovieforum.com/t1376p300-the-bigger-badder-even-more-serious-thread-5

{{ How drunkenly precient of me!
But its a disasterous move, dangerous, stupid and way beyond the US scope to declare such a thing- youre just 1 country, not the arbitraters of the world. This is one of those dick moves makes me want to scream 'Fuck America!'
No wonder people in that area chant 'Death to America!' I dont blame them.

Fortunately the rest of the world is not America.

Palestinian respone-

"Israeli colonial settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories, including East Jerusalem, are not only illegal under international law, they are war crimes," said Mr Erekat. "Once the Trump administration decides to undermine international law... this constitutes a major threat to international peace and security."....Nabil Abu Rudeina, a spokesman for Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, said: "The United States is neither qualified nor is authorised to negate international legitimacy resolutions, and it has no right to give any legitimacy to Israeli settlement."
Palestinian militant groups also weighed in, calling it the official funeral of the Oslo peace process - which laid the foundations for Palestinian self-rule in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza Strip - and urging stepped-up resistance to the Israeli occupation.'

Likewise the UN have said-

'the UN human rights office reaffirmed its position that the settlements were unlawful, saying the change "of one state does not modify existing international law nor its interpretation by the International Court of Justice and the [UN] Security Council".

Same with the EU

The European Union's foreign policy chief, Federica Mogherini, said the bloc's position was that "all settlement activity is illegal under international law and it erodes the viability of the two-state solution and the prospects for a lasting peace".

And more locally Jordan-

Ayman Safadi, Foreign Minister of Jordan - the custodian of a holy site in Jerusalem known to Muslims as al-Haram al-Sharif (the Noble Sanctuary) and to Jews as the Temple Mount - said the change would "kill" a two-state solution, calling the settlements "a blatant violation of international law".

Expect as a result of this stupid US move to increase the pace and scale of illegal settlements and as a result to turn up the violence, death and misery in the region as Palestinians attempt to resist this illegal expansion and theft of their land.

So once again I say, FUCK YOU AMERICA! You are ripping up the International order of Law and replacing it with on a whim politics and nothing else. So, so fucking stupid my mind boggles at the heights of how fucking stupid and dangerous this is.}}