Welcome and Introductions (Newbies, Please) [2]

What defines hip-hop if not the nearly monotone vocals?

Maybe that's rap, and hip-hop is what break dancers use?

Hip hop culture is traditionally divided into four distinct elements: rapping, DJing (turntablism), breakdancing, and graffiti art.  Rap was influenced by the Jamaican musical practice of "toasting" and is similar in many respects to spoken word poetry, so yes, I suppose you could describe it as monotone.  The musical backing actually developed first, historically, and is often defined by the practice of sampling.  Early hip hop DJs made music by taking the a small section of a song that was the most danceable or that they just really liked the sound of, and put that section on repeat while also mixing it with samples from other songs.  The art of turntablism has come a long way since then, with record scratches, drum machines, and eventually live instrumentation becoming common elements of hip hop production. But even artists who don't use samples still tend to be classified as hip hop if they still make music that sounds similar to the rest of the genre. The Roots are a prominent example of a band that plays with instruments and doesn't really use samples at all, but still clearly makes hip hop music.

The Roots is a band I have a lot of respect for, never heard them do such clearly defined rap before. They frame the rap portions well. I hear them and Queen Latifah perform outside the hip-hop genre and knock it out of the park, which makes me think there has to be something about rap that I'm missing. But it usually sounds like the least interesting part of the performance to me. Okay for variety so long as it's not the only thing going on.

Sorry for the lack of intro. I was actually so familiar with many of the conversations on this site before I joined I just jumped in and blurted out.

How did you first come across Tolkien? As a young teen. A friend gave me the Hobbit to read.

What do you think of the movies?  Love FOTR and TTT. That is all.

Meaning of my name: The Beatles are my favorite Rutles cover band.

How did you find Forumshire?  I found it while looking for alternate views about the current trilogy. TORN was really pissing me off with their apologists and industry plants. Oddly, at the time, I wasn't even really aware there were other Tolkien sites still around. I belonged to ringbearer.org many, many moons ago. TORN was too mainstream for me, but that was pre-LOTR films, back when TORN still had a dedicated site to PJ only. When ringbearer.org collapsed I became a refugee to TORN. Enjoyed my time there...until The Hobbit trilogy arrived and long time TORNers made a mass exodus, making way for phony so called "fans". Jebus. Whereas anyone critical of the current trilogy has well thought out arguments, apologists hide behind the tiresome "That's just your opinion. I thought everything PJ did was amazing." argument. They add absolutely NOTHING to the conversation, and what's worse they deem Boyens is improving on Tolkien's many "faults".

Seriously?

And Dormous(e) is perhaps the most annoying forum person I've ever encountered. But I do find it amusing to see the staffer at TORN increasingly fighting between their own common sense and having to suck up to PJ & Co. In fact I don't even think Quickbeam has posted a review of Bo5A yet, and you know he was one of the first to see it. He probably still hasn't found a way to balance the truth as we all know with having to suck up so they can have PJ's participation in their "Oscar" Party. (NOTE to TORNERS: this trilogy aint winning shit.) I can't wait to see TORN staffers soft shoeing and tempering their questions and responses with the filmmaking team. Hell even the actors playing the dwarves are probably as mad as Chris Lee was at the theatrical release of ROTK. Suckers.

Anyway, while looking for differing opinions I found this site. Lurked about 2 years, and immediately after seeing Bo5A, I had to join in the conversation.

hi Stig glad you decided to join us and I hope you stick around after the Hobbit hooha has subsided. We are lucky here in that half the forum is not solely Hobbit related things, so we are not as reliant on movie news as other Tolkien forums. I too posted on TORn but regularly got banned for being opinionated, but its very annoying trying to fight off those in denial over there, its almost pathological denial, but whatever, let them get on with their cosy club if they need it. No matter how much I wanted to enjoy TH and no matter how long I waited for it, its impossible to deny the end result is shockingly bad.

Hello and welcome again Stig, glad you decided to de-lurk and start posting, always great to see new people here.

Many of us have or still do post on TORn on occasion, and I can sympathize with many of your points (by no means is everyone on TORn like that, I have had a great deal of interesting conversation with many of the posters there, being enthusiastic about a film is not a crime...but being over defensive about its problems is silly...TOrn does tend to bring out the most passionate elements of the fandom from both ends of the spectrum), but at the end of the day TORn has always been the most high profile, family friendly of the Tolkien Forums, so I guess it is just easyier for the Mods to run things the way they are.

I don't bare a grudge, I enjoy posting here much more, Forumshire, despite the name has always thrived on other topics (Eldorion our Chief Mod pointed out we were actually the 3rd most Active Tolkien Forum of last year, despite having fewer than 30 regular posters...) and with Jackson's final 'adaptation' drawing to a close we won't have to worry about it anymore...

Yes welcome again Stig.

As others have said there is plenty conversations to jump into if you feel you want to on non Tolkien topics.
But even once the filns go away we will still be devouring Tolkien news avidly when it arises- from Christopher and his work, to rights speculations and whatever else comes up. And there will always be time to reopen an old debate, or start afresh a new discussion on Tolkiens work.
Formshire is diverse, and in quieter times there may well be more posts in non-Tolkien subjects than in.
But Tolkien remains the heart and soul of the place.

Our name, its created sub-world of Needlehole and the Muck n' Duck and Russet Bog, Mrs Figg's Shoppe for Discreete Ladies, Farmer Daves Special Vegetable Patch, its Ambassadors and Mayor ruled over by Admin Eldo in his Tower of Lore whilst reading its newspapers- they are all in the spirit of the memory and the rejoicing of Tolkien, even when we don't speak of him directly.

Hello Stig!

Stig wrote:Anyway, while looking for differing opinions I found this site. Lurked about 2 years, and immediately after seeing Bo5A, I had to join in the conversation.

Two years!? Whoa, you lurked way longer than I did! {{{I lurked for a couple months before posting.}}}



Welcome aboard!

Funny how having seen BOFA made you really want to get involved in the conversation, whereas after seeing BOFA I felt like there really wasn't much to be said. It's hard to express how disappointing some things are, but I was really glad they kept the "You are a very fine person, Mr. Baggins..." quote. That's pretty much the only thing I really 100 percent approved of.

Welcome again Stig I truly feel the same way you do about TORn, hence my lifetime first time ban over there. Dormouse is a douche just putting that out there. Even though I have several ways to access it I only can stand so much Jackson worship... But here people opinions, good, bad, or indifferent, are appreciated and welcomed. Hope to see you around the forum

Hi Stig! I dunno if I've introduced myself yet, but I did notice some of your posts in the Hobbit forum. I've been pretty busy with holiday stuff and work (I'm in retail) so I haven't been posting much lately. I also don't feel like I have a ton to say about The Hobbit now, after having posted my pseudo-review of BOFA. As someone who participated in the Purist Wars back in the day (mainly on LOTR Plaza, where those conflicts dragged on for longer than they did on most sites), I'm glad to see BOFA still arousing passions. That gives me hope that there will continue to be interest and discussion of these stories even once The Hobbit films have passed fully into cinematic history.

It is somewhat ironic that this forum was originally founded by and for people who were so excited at the prospect of a Hobbit movie that they couldn't stop talking about it, considering how anti-movie the forum leans now (though it's not quite as uniformly negative as it might seem at first glance). This has been a very long, very gradual process, and probably one factor has been that we've grown to be the second-largest Tolkien forum in English, though only a distant second to TORn. This has, coupled with our atypical style of moderation and the number of people here with TORn accounts, given rise to a sense of rivalry.

However -- and here I'm not addressing anyone directly but speaking of a general trend -- I have to admit I'm disheartened by the sense of animosity that crops up against TORn on here all too regularly. I've complained about their moderation policies before, but I have great respect and affection for many people on TORn, and I remember fondly the period when it was my main Tolkien hang-out. While I understand that there are some people who just rub you the wrong way, this forum is not an appropriate venue for calling out others who cannot see or respond to statements being made about them. I'm not trying to single anyone out here, but TORn has come up more than usual lately due to discussions surrounding the release of BOFA, and I know from private conversations that I am not the only one who is bothered by the negativity against movie fans in general and individual TORnsibs in particular.

Eldorion wrote:Hi Stig!  I dunno if I've introduced myself yet, but I did notice some of your posts in the Hobbit forum.  I've been pretty busy with holiday stuff and work (I'm in retail) so I haven't been posting much lately.  I also don't feel like I have a ton to say about The Hobbit now, after having posted my pseudo-review of BOFA.  As someone who participated in the Purist Wars back in the day (mainly on LOTR Plaza, where those conflicts dragged on for longer than they did on most sites), I'm glad to see BOFA still arousing passions.  That gives me hope that there will continue to be interest and discussion of these stories even once The Hobbit films have passed fully into cinematic history.

It is somewhat ironic that this forum was originally founded by and for people who were so excited at the prospect of a Hobbit movie that they couldn't stop talking about it, considering how anti-movie the forum leans now (though it's not quite as uniformly negative as it might seem at first glance).  This has been a very long, very gradual process, and probably one factor has been that we've grown to be the second-largest Tolkien forum in English, though only a distant second to TORn.  This has, coupled with our atypical style of moderation and the number of people here with TORn accounts, given rise to a sense of rivalry.

However -- and here I'm not addressing anyone directly but speaking of a general trend -- I have to admit I'm disheartened by the sense of animosity that crops up against TORn on here all too regularly.  I've complained about their moderation policies before, but I have great respect and affection for many people on TORn, and I remember fondly the period when it was my main Tolkien hang-out.  While I understand that there are some people who just rub you the wrong way, this forum is not an appropriate venue for calling out others who cannot see or respond to statements being made about them.  I'm not trying to single anyone out here, but TORn has come up more than usual lately due to discussions surrounding the release of BOFA, and I know from private conversations that I am not the only one who is bothered by the negativity against movie fans in general and individual TORnsibs in particular.

I see your point about bashing TORN, but in all honesty I feel like it's just if only in the fact that they are very obviously passive aggressive in getting film naysayers to leave. I may be wrong, but I feel like there's a lot of calculated bullshit that goes on there and that they have more than a few WB industry plants. Those are the folks I'm calling out. I've been bopping around TORN for many years and I've seen drastic changes. Many of the friends I had there no longer post (at least in the film sections) and I think that kind of needs to be challenged a bit...at least until they stop advertising themselves as a Tolkien site and change it to a post-LOTR PJ site.

Anyway, I kinda just had to get my anti-TORN feeling show because this is one place I've noticed you can do it. I certainly don't mean to harp on it, but damn, the axe they grind gets old and it's exhausting and ironic trying to defend Tolkien on a supposedly Tolkien fan site. I kind of take it as an insult. TORN is a very visible force and mediators between Tolkien and new comers to his work and I kind of feel a duty to ensure that Tolkien gets a better representation than he gets at TORN these days. I mean, hell, even Richard Armitage and Ian McKellen have said the filmmakers may've gone too far in their pop-culture-ization of Tolkien's work. I see TORN as an extension of that. The way Chris Tolkien and Viggo Mortensen get bashed there: fanaticism.

Mrs Figg wrote:hi Stig glad you decided to join us and I hope you stick around after the Hobbit hooha has subsided. We are lucky here in that half the forum is not solely Hobbit related things, so we are not as reliant on movie news as other Tolkien forums. I too posted on TORn but regularly got banned for being opinionated, but its very annoying trying to fight off those in denial over there, its almost pathological denial, but whatever, let them get on with their cosy club if they need it. No matter how much I wanted to enjoy TH and no matter how long I waited for it, its impossible to deny the end result is shockingly bad.

And that's the biggest irony of all: we all wanted to love it. I even tolerated/defended (most of) AUJ because I thought PJ was giving us more time in the Shire (always good. I wouldn't mind a whole movie of it.) and was going to give breathing room to existing characters and rightly expand on simple mentions (Raddy)...but...no

The funny thing is there are plenty on ToRN where I might have other things in common- you never find out there is part of the problem.
I mean here Figg and I can have some right ole sparky banter and back ad forth if the topic is PJ's LotR's film or just about anything ever on the Doctor Who thread.
But then we can go another thread and talk art, or other films, or other books or just silliness and fun that we both enjoy.
It takes the edge of the places where we disagree, and helps give a more rounded respect for the other person.

I adore Figg to bits, but there will ever come a time when we see eye to eye over NZ's grass colour!
Had I not got to know her on other topics outside PJ's films though we may have just come to think of each other as stubborn pains in the arse (actually at least one of us is that and he's sitting on it right now typing!).

So I think even with ToRN you have to accept you are only seeing a tiny part of someone expressing views on a tiny part of their total life experience.

Hi Stig! I did the opposite of what you have done. I registered (thanks to a someone named Norc), and then started lurking (-ish). But nevermind that. Welcome to the forum

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
I adore Figg to bits, but there will ever come a time when we see eye to eye over NZ's grass colour!

Man that's a blast from the past. From our very own Bree even!
I sort of miss that place.

Hiya, Id just like to say that my fook, bastarding PC has bit the dust, its expired, kicked the bucket, perished, given up the ghost, popped its clogs & fell off the perch I feel like I'm in mourning !, bereft, in the throes of a funeral as soon as I can get another PC IL be back to annoy you all I'm using the library computer at mo, but, human adults are only allowed half an hour as its holidays & the darling little invertebrates must, at all cost, be allowed to take up every fooking computer, for as long as they like, whilst piss arseing about with their mates on facebook while I, me, moi, have important things to do !!! I miss you guys already !! Love to you all !! & a Happy Belated Birthday Lance ! I hope you had a great day !!

Bugger- so sorry to hear that Az. I hoe you can find some means to join us soon, I was wondering where you had got too all ready so dont you dare stay away too long or I will become very crabbit (ok more crabbit)

And I knew I saw Lances name for a birthday- where did it go? I better not have missed it there's a half finished birthday Daily Purist in the printers

Sorry to hear about your PC, Az. Mine was at death's door before I was given a replacement as a gift just recently. Hope you get your comp situation sorted out soon.

Sorry to hear about your PC Az (I hate the bleeding things myself, confusing, expensive, and tempremental I make do with a basic laptop)

hopefully you'll get it sorted out soon and be back to join us soon

{{{Possible derail here, but is there really a meaningful difference between desktops and laptops anymore? I just use PC to mean both interchangeably. I've only ever owned laptops myself.}}}

Eldorion wrote:{{{Possible derail here, but is there really a meaningful difference between desktops and laptops anymore?  I just use PC to mean both interchangeably.  I've only ever owned laptops myself.}}}

Hard drive size I guess? (I know jack shit about computers)

I mostly use my Laptop to watch videos and surf the net, it's essentially a very large tablet I haven't got round to installing Microsoft Office on yet...

I use LibreOffice on a pretty regular basis. I have Steam for occasional gaming and GIMP for the odd bit of image editing as well. But yeah the lion's share of my computer usage goes through the browser and includes audio/video streaming.

It gives me a lump in my throat reading the new comers word. Just starting on a journey with a motely but loving bunch of us.

Hello Leelee yeah, I know great bunch of people ! I sometimes just like quietly reading posts that go way back & it always makes me smile