FREEDOM!!!! [3]

what's the latest news on the devolution of powers discussion?- David

It has just begun. The Smith Commission its called. They have had two days of meetings so far and agreed principles.The Chairman described the talks so far as 'constructive' but its early days and no policy will be discussed till the start of November as they have to wait for the results of public consultations which don't finish until the end of the month.

The party with the most issues to resolve it seems are Scottish Labour, all sorts of leadership rumblings there, a new splinter group has formed and had meetings which advocates a Scottish Labour party entirely separate from the Westminster version. And the offer Scottish Labour put on the table for devolution improvements was the weakest of all, even the Tories put forward a stronger devolution settlement.
And polling indicates they may lose a lot of seats in the General Election next year to the SNP in what were Labour heartlands in Glasgow.


Project Fear worked, I guess?- Eldo

Actually I dont think it did in the end. I reckon had they stuck with it to the end they would have narrowly lost.
The main factor in the change was dumping Project Fear in the last days and making the cross-party pledge, and that was down to Gordon Brown. It put devomax back on the table at the last minute. And it was always the majority choice of the people  in every poll conducted.

That's an interesting point, Petty. Did the Tory backbenchers ever start pushing back against the whole devo max idea, or are they going along with it?

I was curious about that too. Also, how does all this position Gordon Brown? Is he back in play now?

It will be very interesting to see what comes out of the Smith Commission. I'm sure a lot of people outside Scotland, and even outside the UK, are watching very closely.

I'm very curious to see how the EU's demand for 2 billion extra pounds from the UK plays out. Cameron has said that he won't pay by the December 1 deadline that the European Commission gave, but has not specified whether he plans to pay at a later date. I imagine the UKIP and Eurosceptic Tories are salivating at this news, though.

Its a fishy one. The Tories are going about acting like this has come out of the blue and is unacceptable.
But it was agreed to ages ago, and last time it happened the UK got money back and we didnt complain then.

UKIP of course are making the most of it, as it plays into their narrative with those who only read headlines and not the substance.

And there is an important by-election coming up being fought out mainly between Tories and UKIP. A UKIP victory would be seen as a disaster for Cameron and put even more pressure on him from his own backbenchers.

The implosion of Scottish Labour sems to be underway.

'Johann Lamont is to stand down as leader of the Scottish Labour. She is said to have become disillusioned with internal criticism of her leadership and interference by the UK Labour party in the running of Scottish Labour.'- BBC

About time too. Although interesting that she is briefing against the UK Labour Party given the rumblings in the Scottish party to separate itself from association with Westminster.

Just a quick update to the above. Seems there is a bit more flesh on her reasons for going-

'Ms Lamont wanted more autonomy for the party in Scotland and significant new powers for the Scottish Parliament.
But she felt both of those objectives were being thwarted by some of her Westminster colleagues, and accused them of putting their own interests ahead of those of Scotland.
She was also unhappy that a senior official of the Scottish party - general secretary Ian Price - was to be removed from office without her being consulted.'- BBC

So basically she is squarely blaming Westminster Labour.

edit add- apparently she calls Labour Westminster colleagues 'dinosuars who think nothing has changed.'

'Ms Lamont accused some Labour MPs at Westminster of failing to realise that the "focus of Scottish politics is now Holyrood, not Westminster."
She said the new devolution settlement "must start with what is best for Scotland not what suits Westminster MPs."
The Labour Party must recognize that the Scottish Labour Party has to be autonomous and not just a branch office of a party based in London."- BBC

Out of curiosity, what are the former Labour for Independence people doing? Are they trying to apply pressure on the party from within, or are they moving more in their own direction? You had mentioned something about a splinter group earlier.

They held a meeting this week. I suspect the latest news will play into whatever they do next. Clearly the sense that the Scottish Labour party has been run from London had a lot to do with their unhappiness. So much hinges on what happens next.

But a seperate Scottish Labour party raises its own questions. What happens at a general election? Will only Scottish Labour stand in Scotland? If so then a vote for them would not be a vote for the Westminster Labour party who might be forming the government. So does that mean at a general election there might be two Labour candidates standing in every seat? One from Scottish Labour and one from Westminster Labour? And would that not just split the labour vote?

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Well what a suprise-

'Oil firms BP and GDF Suez have announced the discovery of a new field in the UK Central North Sea.'- BBC

Thats the third 'newly discovered' oil field announced since the referendum debate ended. When we were being told there were no new oil fields and rumours that new fields had been found but were not being announced deliberately were false.

"This discovery shows exactly what can be achieved in the North Sea if companies work together to maximise the considerable potential of remaining oil and gas reserves."- UK government's Business and Energy Minister Matthew Hancock
.

Sounds like we need some more Zygon activity to shut down all this talk of oil drilling!

Pettytyrant101 wrote:The implosion of Scottish Labour sems to be underway.

'Johann Lamont is to stand down as leader of the Scottish Labour. She is said to have become disillusioned with internal criticism of her leadership and interference by the UK Labour party in the running of Scottish Labour.'- BBC

(...)

I read this in the news just now, I have to say I spent more time on the name "Johann" than the rest of the text. I'm guessing it sounds like Jo-Ann?

Yes it does. Sort of. The H isnt entirely silent, it softens the A sound.

The aftermath of this referendum is a bit weird.

The SNP lost and their leader spteeped down, but was smoothly replaced by a popular uncontested Deputy. And the SNP have quadrupled their membership sine the referendum.

Labour were on the wining side. Their leader has gone under bad circumstances and taking potshots at the Labour leadership, there is no clear successor and lots of infighting over it and between the Scottish and English Labour parties, which seems likely to get worse as people campaign to be new leader. And their membership is decimated.

Like I say, weird.

And, correct me if I'm wrong, it's not like the SNP is a left leaning party either. So will this lead to a general political shift too do you think?

It's a bit complex with the SNP.
Because they came about as a party of Independence they drew members from the right and left of politics. So long as they wanted independence.
This resulted under Salmond in a very successful mix. They favour right of centre policies towards business- low tax rates, supporting inward investment and small business through the tax regime ect
But they also support traditional left wing social policies, like free education and health.

A large part of their success comes down from them not being right or left wing.

One of the failed Labour attempts to smear the SNP was to call them Tartan Tories because of their business policies, but it failed because people didnt care as the NHS and education were being protected and the business policies reaped rewards in record level of inward investment.

The new leader, former deputy Nicola Sturgeon (no I dont know what it is with the SNP and fish names either!) however comes from the more left wing side of the party, where Salmond was more centre right with a background in law and business.
This is one of the reasons commentators are predicting big gains for the SNP in traditional labour areas.

Ah, that's interesting. And it's interesting that you have a party from the political center in actual power. Normally the wing parties, right or left, manage to snear most of the voters with more tabloid policies that interest large voter groups in particular.

Its an odd thing as all my adult life of being interested in politics it is something I have advocated.
I have never understood the political mentality that looks at an issue and says 'this is the best solution for this, but we cant use it as it from the left/right of politics.'

Surely the best idea is the best idea and it shouldnt matter a jot which side of the political divide it might be traditionally from.
If the people want free education then find the best policies to provide it, if that means using right of centre business policies to increase revenue take elsewhere to fund it, then so what?

Youre not meant to understand, youre meant to obey it.
( tho I agree with what you say )

Scottish Labour continues to melt away.
Two new pools, one for STV news and and another for the Times predicts complete collapse of the Labour vote in Scotland and a massive SNP surge at next years General Elections.

'The Ipsos Mori survey shows Labour would poll 23% of the Scottish vote, leaving them with just four seats in Scotland (down a staggering 38 MP's) support for the SNP has surged to 52%, giving them a projected 54 seats at Westminster. '

SNP membership is now so high it accounts for 1 in every 5 Scots.

Last night Miliband was in Scotland for a dinner function, at which the Scottish Deputy Anas Sarwar announced he too was going. He is not an MSP (Scottish parliament member) but an MP at Westminster.

This is being widely seen as a Westminster stitch up, a the Westminster person of choice to take over Scottish labour, Jim Murphy, is also an MP, not an MSP, and given the ex-leaders cutting parting shots about Westminster Labour pulling all the strings having both leader and deputy leader as Westminster MP's would have not gone down well. So it looks like the Deputy as been persuaded to fall on his sword to make room for the Westminster man of choice. Another Labour pr disaster.

Rally is interesting how things are falling following the NO vote.

More fall out from the referendum.

Only two candidates have put their name forward for the Deputy Leader of Scottish Labour position.

A new group calling themselves 'The Scottish Campaign for Home Rule' has been set up with MSP's on it from all Scottish Parties.
'The campaign was unveiled amid concerns that the Smith Commission process may be hijacked by “horse-trading”.'- Scotsman

And head of Better Together Allistair Darling is going too, he is not standing for reelection.

Bizarrely thats now almost every high profile person associated with the NO campaign gone, and Scottish Labour has crashed and burned as a result of it.

And a new poll shows that if there was another independence referendum tomorrow YES would win it by 52 to 48.

Weird.

Encouraging news. I was worried that this would just sort of fade away once the referendum was over and politics as usual would resume. It's heartening to see that it doesn't look like this will be possible without the change that was promised being delivered on.

A new group calling themselves 'The Scottish Campaign for Home Rule' has been set up with MSP's on it from all Scottish Parties.

I like that.
It keeps democracy in the process.
Something commissions can sometimes forget....

Yeah its a good idea. Especially as the Better Together rushed promises have left a timetable for the Commission its head describes as 'challenging' especially when i comes to the public submissions part.
Problem is if they dont deliver on time they look like they are going back on their 'categorical pledge to deliver' and if they do deliver on time it will probably be a rushed and botched mess that will need patching up for years to come.

The general mood at the moment seems to be one of independence hasnt been defeated, just delayed.
Next years General Election will give a better idea- if the Scottish Labour and Lib-Dem vote does collapse and the SNP pick up their seats then that will be interesting indeed, and weirdly if its a hung Parliament again could even lead to the SNP being the deal breakers there. As the projected 52 seats they would gain is significantly higher than the numbers being predicted for UKIP or even the Lib Dems.

They are putting up a statue to Tom Weir, who was a climber and an author.
But most famously in Scotland a broadcaster.

He had a show called Weir's Way, and it was just him walking all over Scotland.
He'd go to an area, and as he walks through it he would explain the geology, tell the folk lore, meet locals and see how they lived, and give you the history of the place. He really covered all bases. And it was all very gentle and warm.
When I was about 5,6 this was my history teacher about my country. It used get repeated late at night, and almost without fail when staying at my grand fathers I would fall asleep in his huge armchair before a roaring log fire, listening to Tom Weir tell me tales of my homeland and my grand father would carry me up the stairs to my bed. So I have very fond memories of the show.

Watching it back now I release there is a poignancy, a sense of things passing, of generations not just of people but of folk memories being lost, that I was aware of even as a kid.
That probably explains part of my love of LotR's as Tolkien perfectly captures that sense of things moving from present, to past, to memory, to story, and potentially to loss forever.

Anyway, get cosy, make yourself a hot chocolate, less deserving folk have had a statue put up to them, so here to you Tom!

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Scottish Labour continues to melt away.
Two new pools, one for STV news and and another for the Times predicts complete collapse of the Labour vote in Scotland and a massive SNP surge at next years General Elections.

'The Ipsos Mori survey shows Labour would poll 23% of the Scottish vote, leaving them with just four seats in Scotland (down a staggering 38 MP's) support for the SNP has surged to 52%, giving them a projected 54 seats at Westminster. '

SNP membership is now so high it accounts for 1 in every 5 Scots.

Last night Miliband was in Scotland for a dinner function, at which the Scottish Deputy Anas Sarwar announced he too was going. He is not an MSP (Scottish parliament member) but an MP at Westminster.

This is being widely seen as a Westminster stitch up, a the Westminster person of choice to take over Scottish labour, Jim Murphy, is also an MP, not an MSP, and given the ex-leaders cutting parting shots about Westminster Labour pulling all the strings having both leader and deputy leader as Westminster MP's would have not gone down well. So it looks like the Deputy as been persuaded to fall on his sword to make room for the Westminster man of choice. Another Labour pr disaster.

Rally is interesting how things are falling following the NO vote.

they need to ditch Miliband asap. he is a walking disaster. and he's a feminist