FREEDOM!!!! [3]

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Post by Eldorion Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:21 am

The whole Project Fear thing has been disappointing, but there are a lot of uncertainties surrounding the issue of independence. I think the main reason for this is because the negotiations for independence were postponed until after the referendum (AFAIK this was planned from the start), and neither side wanted to offer much in the way of concessions before the vote. At least not until the NO panic set in a couple weeks ago.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:24 am

If they had stuck with Project Fear until the end and if Brown had not effectively taken over the NO campaign from Darling in the last two weeks I think it would be a clear YES.
But they may have done enough with a mix of uncertainty over the money issue combined with promising more powers, sadly.

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Post by halfwise Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:31 am

Off to bed. See what I wake up to.

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Post by Eldorion Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:34 am

Sleep well, Halfy!

@Petty: I've got to admit that I haven't been entirely convinced by the SNP's explanation of the currency issue.  But I think it's kind of a shame that the process has been so adversarial.  I understand that that's inevitable with a competitive vote like a referendum, but I feel like both sides could have constructed better proposals (for both independence and devo max/federalization/whatever) if they'd engaged in genuine negotiation ahead of time.

But of course, that would have involved putting devo max on the ballot, which didn't happen due to Cameron's tactical gamble. I don't think anyone took the SNP seriously enough to really engage with them in serious negotiation until just recently. So by that measure, the referendum will be at least a partial success, even in the event of a NO vote, provided it's not by a massive margin.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:35 am

Night Halfy. Fortunately I have the buckie to see me through drunken

Inverclyde has gone No by a tiny margin, less than 100 votes.
But thats a really bad one for YES.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:37 am

Eldo the currency issue was NO's best payed card.
They were the only ones who could have answered that question, and should have right at the start. The electoral commission pressed them several times to engage in discussions on currency and EU membership but Westminster refused to do so, knowing it would create uncertainty.
A solid tactic, if an underhanded one.

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Post by Eldorion Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:42 am

Yeah, I think you're right about that. The SNP put out a ton of ideas with the White Paper and all, but you need both sides to engage if you want to reduce uncertainty.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:55 am

Dundee votes YES by a decent margin. Good on you Dundee. cheers

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:56 am

Renfrewshire goes NO.

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Post by Eldorion Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:56 am

Largest margin of any mainland constituency so far, though also one of the lower turnouts so far -- "only" 78%.  Fingers crossed.

Edit: this was about Dundee.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:57 am

Standing at 172,426 YES to 178,811 NO.

Only 6400 in it, not over yet.

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Post by Eldorion Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:59 am

Yeah, 50.9% to 49.1% is still extremely close.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:02 am

Im hopping about between BBC 1 England coverage and BBC1 Scotland coverage- and I still dont know why they are doing two different shows covering it.
They are obviously in the same building as guests on one turn up on the other five minutes later!

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Post by Eldorion Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:07 am

West Dunbartonshire votes YES by about 5000 votes!

We're very close to a dead heat now.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:07 am

cheers

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:08 am

That calls for another buckie! drunken

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Post by Eldorion Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:11 am

Midlothian votes NO by about 7600.
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Post by bungobaggins Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:12 am

Things are starting to get interesting. Nod

edit: just when things were getting interesting. Mad

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:12 am

Might need another buckie now Mad

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Post by Eldorion Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:15 am

Oh man, YES got creamed in East Lothian.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:16 am

Yup thats a really bad one.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:18 am

Another No win in Stirling. Wallace will be spinning in his grave. Mad (Well if they hadnt chopped him into bits that is)

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:22 am

Another 8000 votes for NO in Falkirk.
NO are pulling away again.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:28 am

Another win for NO in Angus.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:30 am

And a big NO from Aberdeen. So thats about 50,000 lead for NO overall.

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