FREEDOM!!!! [3]
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Forest Shepherd
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Page 27 of 40
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Re: FREEDOM!!!! [3]
The whole Project Fear thing has been disappointing, but there are a lot of uncertainties surrounding the issue of independence. I think the main reason for this is because the negotiations for independence were postponed until after the referendum (AFAIK this was planned from the start), and neither side wanted to offer much in the way of concessions before the vote. At least not until the NO panic set in a couple weeks ago.
Re: FREEDOM!!!! [3]
If they had stuck with Project Fear until the end and if Brown had not effectively taken over the NO campaign from Darling in the last two weeks I think it would be a clear YES.
But they may have done enough with a mix of uncertainty over the money issue combined with promising more powers, sadly.
But they may have done enough with a mix of uncertainty over the money issue combined with promising more powers, sadly.
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Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
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Re: FREEDOM!!!! [3]
Off to bed. See what I wake up to.
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Re: FREEDOM!!!! [3]
Sleep well, Halfy!
@Petty: I've got to admit that I haven't been entirely convinced by the SNP's explanation of the currency issue. But I think it's kind of a shame that the process has been so adversarial. I understand that that's inevitable with a competitive vote like a referendum, but I feel like both sides could have constructed better proposals (for both independence and devo max/federalization/whatever) if they'd engaged in genuine negotiation ahead of time.
But of course, that would have involved putting devo max on the ballot, which didn't happen due to Cameron's tactical gamble. I don't think anyone took the SNP seriously enough to really engage with them in serious negotiation until just recently. So by that measure, the referendum will be at least a partial success, even in the event of a NO vote, provided it's not by a massive margin.
@Petty: I've got to admit that I haven't been entirely convinced by the SNP's explanation of the currency issue. But I think it's kind of a shame that the process has been so adversarial. I understand that that's inevitable with a competitive vote like a referendum, but I feel like both sides could have constructed better proposals (for both independence and devo max/federalization/whatever) if they'd engaged in genuine negotiation ahead of time.
But of course, that would have involved putting devo max on the ballot, which didn't happen due to Cameron's tactical gamble. I don't think anyone took the SNP seriously enough to really engage with them in serious negotiation until just recently. So by that measure, the referendum will be at least a partial success, even in the event of a NO vote, provided it's not by a massive margin.
Re: FREEDOM!!!! [3]
Night Halfy. Fortunately I have the buckie to see me through
Inverclyde has gone No by a tiny margin, less than 100 votes.
But thats a really bad one for YES.
Inverclyde has gone No by a tiny margin, less than 100 votes.
But thats a really bad one for YES.
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Re: FREEDOM!!!! [3]
Eldo the currency issue was NO's best payed card.
They were the only ones who could have answered that question, and should have right at the start. The electoral commission pressed them several times to engage in discussions on currency and EU membership but Westminster refused to do so, knowing it would create uncertainty.
A solid tactic, if an underhanded one.
They were the only ones who could have answered that question, and should have right at the start. The electoral commission pressed them several times to engage in discussions on currency and EU membership but Westminster refused to do so, knowing it would create uncertainty.
A solid tactic, if an underhanded one.
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Re: FREEDOM!!!! [3]
Yeah, I think you're right about that. The SNP put out a ton of ideas with the White Paper and all, but you need both sides to engage if you want to reduce uncertainty.
Re: FREEDOM!!!! [3]
Dundee votes YES by a decent margin. Good on you Dundee.
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Re: FREEDOM!!!! [3]
Renfrewshire goes NO.
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Re: FREEDOM!!!! [3]
Largest margin of any mainland constituency so far, though also one of the lower turnouts so far -- "only" 78%. Fingers crossed.
Edit: this was about Dundee.
Edit: this was about Dundee.
Re: FREEDOM!!!! [3]
Standing at 172,426 YES to 178,811 NO.
Only 6400 in it, not over yet.
Only 6400 in it, not over yet.
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Re: FREEDOM!!!! [3]
Im hopping about between BBC 1 England coverage and BBC1 Scotland coverage- and I still dont know why they are doing two different shows covering it.
They are obviously in the same building as guests on one turn up on the other five minutes later!
They are obviously in the same building as guests on one turn up on the other five minutes later!
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Re: FREEDOM!!!! [3]
West Dunbartonshire votes YES by about 5000 votes!
We're very close to a dead heat now.
We're very close to a dead heat now.
Re: FREEDOM!!!! [3]
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Re: FREEDOM!!!! [3]
That calls for another buckie!
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Re: FREEDOM!!!! [3]
Things are starting to get interesting.
edit: just when things were getting interesting.
edit: just when things were getting interesting.
bungobaggins- Eternal Mayor in The Halls of Mandos
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Re: FREEDOM!!!! [3]
Might need another buckie now
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Re: FREEDOM!!!! [3]
Yup thats a really bad one.
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Re: FREEDOM!!!! [3]
Another No win in Stirling. Wallace will be spinning in his grave. (Well if they hadnt chopped him into bits that is)
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Re: FREEDOM!!!! [3]
Another 8000 votes for NO in Falkirk.
NO are pulling away again.
NO are pulling away again.
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Re: FREEDOM!!!! [3]
Another win for NO in Angus.
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Re: FREEDOM!!!! [3]
And a big NO from Aberdeen. So thats about 50,000 lead for NO overall.
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