An Unexpected Journey as seen by Petty Tyrant

I'm not the law student, but I can't imagine that the Tolkien Estate has any grounds to sue on. Otherwise Alan Moore would have made a killing post-Watchmen and V for Vendetta.

ah, by saying the films are boring & that might put people off reading the book, that in its self has done enough damage. And yes, why should PJ, warner & whoever else is involved in this travesty be let off under the umbrella of "artistic license" ?! Making a mockery of a clear cut story will allow others to do the same. See how YOU (generally, not personally !) feel as you watch YOUR favourite story ripped to shreds & re-hashed as something unbelievable.  

Sadly, Eldo, this sort of behaviour has raged for years, books re-assembled differently when stuck on celluloid.

Honestly it's sometimes an improvement, or at the very least, works just as well on its own merits as something different. Not saying that's the case with LOTR (I do think that PJ's story is inferior to Tolkien's, although it does work for the most part despite its inconsistencies), but I'm not a religious defender of the sanctity of source material. Sorry.

Its me being overly fussy ! I DO feel like an over protective tiger when it comes to my fav books, but, I dont get miffed towards ANYONE at all if they like what they like & how the work has been created ! I wont say "your wrong & Im right" ! Sometimes I envy people who can say "it dont bother them", I think I react to jumpy ? but, IL stand by what I feel & say, & for ME,PJ,you fooked up dear !

My english legal vocabulary is rather bad Eldo, but I'll try to put it a coherent form if you like?

The problem for me is excactly as you say. They are adapting Tolkien who took great pride in creating a large lush and coherent world and creating great but coherent stories. When someone adapting his stories remove parts to replace with their own writing while keeping others without care, the story become incoherent and confusing as it loses it's inner logic. That's the mistake Jackson and co has made adapting the Tolkiens work. And thats the faults they have exasperated in adapting the Hobbit.

If this was their own fantasy stories I would of course judge them on that basis. And I would still say the Hobbit is remarkably bad even as an original work.

Alan Moore would have made a killing post-Watchmen and V for Vendetta.- Eldo

I have often wondered what his complaints were on those two, especially Watchmen.

Its hard to imagine any Holywood treatment giving Watchmen a more dedicated film (especially the directors cut including the comic within the comic)- its pretty damn close with the exception being the ending, which would be very difficult to convey and show in a film (and the result and the reasons remain the same in the film).

And much as I love the comic V for Vendetta it is very much a comic of its time- Thatchers Britain- with a fairly narrow agenda and scope (although Id like a tv version of it), the film made the concepts universal- although I can see why he might be more annoyed that V's terrorism and the fact he stands for anarchy was drastically toned down.

Its far more a re-imagining of the comic than Watchmen is.

I love both of those films, they are visually stunning.

Have you seen the Ultimate Cut of Watchmen Mrs Figg- if not and you like the cinema version I would highly recommend it as it restored the entire substory with the kid and the news vendor and his comic as well as adding a lot of other character stuff to it- not short though at just over 3 and half hours.

I can certainly understand where you're coming from, and I share plenty of regrets for the movies.

Yeah, that was my biggest gripe with the adaptations. The lazyness and the carelessness when it comes to dealing with their subject matter.

You know Eldo, for all of you and other people calling you a liberal, I think our opinions of these movies are probably quite similar.   We have just found different ways to deal with it.  As I said to Norc on the other thread I quite envy her all her anticipation for the movies coming out. I wish I could feel the same way. Peter Jackson has just made it very hard for a Tolkien reader.

no Petty I only saw it on tv and it was probably the theatrical cut. I was blown away though, I loved the use of music, and that scene off world would have been incredible on the big screen. My favourite character was the Mothman? is that his name?

The one that gets carted of to the asylum? (He was one of the original 1950's Watchmen)- if you get a chance to see the Ultimate Cut I would recommend it.

Eldorion wrote:Honestly it's sometimes an improvement, or at the very least, works just as well on its own merits as something different.  Not saying that's the case with LOTR (I do think that PJ's story is inferior to Tolkien's, although it does work for the most part despite its inconsistencies), but I'm not a religious defender of the sanctity of source material.  Sorry.

Anyone who has read The Godfather can see how a good director/writing team can turn thumb fingered pulp fiction into a work of art. To a lesser extent the same can be said of 2001: a Space Odyssey. Sadly the reverse is often the case.

Bluebottle wrote:You know Eldo, for all of you and other people calling you a liberal, I think our opinions of these movies are probably quite similar.   We have just found different ways to deal with it.  As I said to Norc on the other thread I quite envy her all her anticipation for the movies coming out. I wish I could feel the same way. Peter Jackson has just made it very hard for a Tolkien reader.

I'm really only a liberal compared to Petty and the recent converts he's found to his particular form of ultra-purism. Believe it or not, I was actually the first person to ever argue for purism on this forum, way back in the early days before Petty even signed up here.

halfwise wrote:Anyone who has read The Godfather can see how a good director/writing team can turn thumb fingered pulp fiction into a work of art. To a lesser extent the same can be said of 2001: a Space Odyssey.  Sadly the reverse is often the case.  

I've never read The Godfather, but I have heard that several times.  One of the works that changed some of my opinions was the comic book movie Kick-Ass.  Obviously not on the level of The Godfather, but the movie was IMO an improvement over the comic probably because it shat on the comic's themes and character ideas. (Don't get me started on the second Kick-Ass movie though; that was godawful.)

Kick Ass 2 wasn't awful, it was just so Meh it shouldn't have really existed, it wasn't even competent enough to fail dramatically.

The Godfather is without doubt my (joint) Favourite film, and (IMO) one of the best ever made, it's actually very close to the book, a few subplots are excised and characters tweaked but I'd rank it around 70% faithful. Both are brilliant in their own way, but the film is very definitely a cinematic adaption, the book clearly a book, so even with the similarities in plot and tone I don't really compare them.

I love Watchmen, film and graphic Novel (haven't read the prequel comics), I've seen the Directors cut, but the Ultimate Cut isn't available in Europe as far as I know  

The Godfather has been a favourite of mine since the first time I saw it, yet I've never even thought about reading the book Maybe I should add it to my to-read list, though it is getting terribly long

halfwise wrote: Anyone who has read The Godfather can see how a good director/writing team can turn thumb fingered pulp fiction into a work of art.

Hmm, I'll have to check out this film.

I heard someone named Vito is snatched from near death by someone known as 'Michael' -- I'm guessing an archangel here, and Vito probably fell from an incredible height into the jaws of a wolf, which is how one usually gets almost dead.  

Plus a talking or screaming horse head. I hope it's grey! Sounds like a fun film in any case.

Nice to see you venturing out of the Middle-earth forums, Elthir!

{{{Comedy Elthir is Best Elthir. }}}

Who Norced my thread?!!  

Looking back it might possibly have been me.   

Sorry about that.  

Fjordians!  

We wear it like a badge of honor.   

Page 2 of thread done. I'm reading it like it's a seialization - a penny dreadful in fact! - which is coming out each morning in my edition of the PJ News.  

One selection I chose early on -- “We are warriors,” Fili announced, or it might have been Kili again, and thumped his feet and punched the air, “Arroooga!” he cried and all the other dwarves got to their feet and shouted rhubarb at one another.  

There were plenty of others before and after though!