Re: Countdown to Release | SPOILER THREAD

[Ally]

damn those killer orcs, i always preffered those nice candian orcs

~anyway

i thought azog was killed & didn't have anything to do with sauron?

Or am I wrong on that point

[Pettytyrant101]

No you are right Ally- Azog had his head lopped off by the dwarves outside the gates of Moria long before TH time period- and obviously this proved fatal and that was that- end of Azog.
PJ seems to have the Necromancer resurrecting him back as a zombie orc (and glueing his head back on) to hunt down Thorin.

Or to put it another way PJ has made up a load of old pish of his own devising (again) and stuck it into the films.

[Ally]

There could be a highly orginal and amazing cinematic shot of his eye opening after every1 things he's dead

[Norc]

Description of Azog from a german magazine-

AZOG:
It was said that Azog the Desecrator fell many years ago in the great battle between the Orcs and the Dwarves. But now he appears again at the top of a deadly horde of killer orcs. For Gandalf begins a race against time because he has to figure out the connection between the most dangerous orc commander and the growing evil, which takes shape in the ruins of the fortress of Dol Guldur. One thing is totally clear: no one will deter Azog from his intention to destroy Thorin Oakenshield’s companions to the last dwarf.


This makes me want to first weep and secondly punch someone.

maybe the necromancer breaths life into dead things or maybe the german "reporter" is a bit confused himself.

[Norc]

damn those killer orcs, i always preffered those nice candian orcs

me too, shame PJ doesn't put one of those in TH.

[Pettytyrant101]

I dont think the reporter is confused Norc, PJ might be though- we know Azog is in it and we know he is at Dol Guldur- and we know from the book he is supposed to be long dead.
So no matter how you cut it PJ has seriously altered either the timeline or the story or more likely both.

[Norc]

Still like him though, I bet it'll be awesome.

[Lancebloke]

Maybe it will be along the lines of Gothmog (who we dont know was actually an orc, let alone one with elephantitis)... someone to lead the troops.

Could be very likely that he lifted and shifted Azog from where he should be to where he is in the film.

[Pettytyrant101]

Im not sure he has shifted Azog- all indications are there will be some info and flashbacks to the big fight in which Azog was killed. And that description seems to confirm that.
And if he has just shifted Azog that totally changes the history between the Dwarves and the Goblins. Without Azog there would have been no war.

[Mrs Figg]

seeing as the Necromancer can probably , er, Necromance, whats the problemo? Azog has been necromanced to life. Simple. and he would definately have a chip on his shoulder about having his head chopped off.

[halfwise]

yeah, that always puts me in a dither too!

[Pettytyrant101]

I dont think he was called the Necro because he was raising the dead- if that was the case he could have raised the orcs killed in the War of the Ring and had an infinite supply of them.
More likely it was a nickname because of the presence of the Ringwraiths stationed there who are undead (especially as he wa sproboably using them uncloaked to hunt the Gladden Fields for the Ring- not a job he could trust to orcs- and people can 'sense' them even uncloaked and are terrified of them- enough for a reputation to grow).
And my main problem is its not what happened- Im sure if Sauron was resurrecting famous orcs from history Tolkien would have mentioned it somewhere.
Its just more PJ invention masquerading as Tolkien.

[Mrs Figg]

I like PJ inventing stuff, he is as inventive as the thing wot won the most inventive thing, in the annual most inventive thing competition, 10 years running. with knobs on.

[Lancebloke]

Im not sure he has shifted Azog- all indications are there will be some info and flashbacks to the big fight in which Azog was killed. And that description seems to confirm that.
And if he has just shifted Azog that totally changes the history between the Dwarves and the Goblins. Without Azog there would have been no war.

Maybe original Azog will be 'unnamed King Orc' instead. Or the war explained away by some other means.

Dont misunderestimate PJ. I would quote Mrs Figgs inventing line but its one post above.

[Pettytyrant101]

Don't worry Lance I have never yet underestimated PJ's ability to invent stuff and rewrite Tolkien. I just dinae like it!

[Eldorion]

Sauron was definitely a Necromancer in The Silmarillion, being involved with spirits and werewolves and all that jazz. I'm not clear how much of that survived when Tolkien began conceiving of the Third Age Sauron for LOTR. Of course, he used the phrase "The Necromancer" for The Hobbit, but he threw a ton of reused names into TH early on. The Necromancer, not really being a part of TH, isn't described at all there.

Still, it's not totally beyond the realm of plausibility for PJ to have Sauron actually Necromancing. I'm more concerned by them making Azog and Bolg lackeys of Sauron instead of the leaders of an independent Orcish kingdom. The idea that all evil in Middle-earth answers to Sauron is a trap many (would-be) adapters of Tolkien have fallen into and IMO it weakens the story and the setting.

[Pettytyrant101]

Hollywood Reporter Hobbit article-

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/the-hobbit-peter-jackson-warner-bros-1-billion-79301

I think this might explain a lot-

"The only reason I started making movies was a love of special effects."

[RA]

I'm sorry but what? So the zombie Orc IS confirmed now? I rate this as bad as Nazgul tombs. Zombies don't belong in Middle Earth. I could accept the subdued supernatural elements in the first age, but this is the Hobbit, the adventure of Bilbo Baggins. How on Earth did Jackson get Zombie out of that story? Is this an attempt to get back to the gore flicks he used to do?

[halfwise]

I'm not sure where all this zombie orc stuff is coming from. Seems more likely they are just doing flashbacks or rewriting history to get as many big mo-fo orcs together on one screen as they can.

[Eldorion]

I'm still not sure if this is official, but the description Petty quoted says that:

It was said that Azog the Desecrator fell many years ago in the great battle between the Orcs and the Dwarves. But now he appears again at the top of a deadly horde of killer orcs.

It sounds to me like Azog was resurrected in some way, or else he didn't actually die in PJ's version of the War of the Dwarves and Orcs but people thought he did.

[RA]

I'm still not sure if this is official, but the description Petty quoted says that:

It was said that Azog the Desecrator fell many years ago in the great battle between the Orcs and the Dwarves. But now he appears again at the top of a deadly horde of killer orcs.

It sounds to me like Azog was resurrected in some way, or else he didn't actually die in PJ's version of the War of the Dwarves and Orcs but people thought he did.

It sounds like a really bad fan-fic either way.

[Pettytyrant101]

If Pj has it he didnt really die, people just think he did (you to tend to get that imprerssion when someones head is chopped off and put on a spike though) then Azog would be an OAP orc! He'd be what something like 150 years old or something by the time of TH and thats assuming he was 1 at the Battle he lost his head at.

However you slice this its bad, no in fact the perfect description is its a load of bollocks.

[azriel]

it is odd that PJ has resurrected Azog for The Hobbit? Its amazing what you can do with divine Inspiration. PJ must surely have "healing hands" Gandalf tells Thorin in the 1st chap.of The Hobbit, that he,Gandalf, had aquired a map from Thorins father, he reminds Thorin that his grandfather,Thror,was killed by Azog. It was Dain Ironfoot that hacked off Azogs head at the battle of Azanulbizar, Right so, Dain killed Azog in 2799
Bilbo born in 2890
Bilbos adventure began in 2941
What age would Azog have been when he was bumped off ? but if he had survived the battle of A, (I aint spelling it again!), Azog would be 142yrs alone if hes to be in The Hobbit? add,say,100yrs to his age, hed be 242yrs old, even at 50yrs,hed be 192yrs old. Azogs death is stated in the book "Unfinished Tales", & in The Lord of The Rings,Appendix A.

[halfwise]

I'm still not sure if this is official, but the description Petty quoted says that:

It was said that Azog the Desecrator fell many years ago in the great battle between the Orcs and the Dwarves. But now he appears again at the top of a deadly horde of killer orcs.

It sounds to me like Azog was resurrected in some way, or else he didn't actually die in PJ's version of the War of the Dwarves and Orcs but people thought he did.

Oh yeah...when I first saw that quote I thought it was from a gamer website, but it's actually from the movie website?

Dead: check
Live again: check
In a PJ movie: check

Yep, we've got ourselves a zombie orc.

(where's that quote from? I can't find it on the official website).

[azriel]

All we need is "Saun of The Dead" theme music !