UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

RIP UK

The computer nerd in me loves this..:

Do you guys know how much space will be freed in EU after Brexit?


1 GB

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Well, at least that part of it is done now.

Here's to a year of fun with trade deals and that Sturgeon making more noise!

Yay!

and that Sturgeon making more noise!- Lance

{{ The independence noise is not coming from the top down, but from the bottom up. Sturgeon just yesterday gave a speech urging patience and telling those supporters a referendum will probably have to wait till after the Scottish Parliament elections, at least.
The real question is if she can keep a lid on it, especially if the calls from the grass roots keep growing and the desire for independence grows (polls are showing Yes ahead by 51% to 49% consistently for first time, thats still far too close, personally I'd not want to see a 2nd referendum unless that aproaches a minimum of 60%. But right now the direction of travel has been steadily if slowly towards Yes).}}

The Spanish will be the ones to put a spanner in the works, even if Johnson somehow agreed to a referendum, which he wont. Sturgeon needs to find some leverage against Johnson to force him to allow indyref2, but Catalonia will be the major obstacle.

Mystic Kitty Predicts
I think its all going to go tits up for the Tories so Sturgeon might not have to wait for a Labour government. The Tories will run out of money and run out of options, or excuses, because black holes like HS2 are going to bankrupt them. They will start to row back on all their promises and the North will be forgotten in the scramble to maintain power in Westminster. Its going to be a slow and painful decline and production will remain weak. Nissan will leave Sunderland. There will be chaos at the ports and miles long lorry tailbacks. The Tories will start selling off the NHS by stealth and soon everyone will need private health insurance/Medicaid. The Russia report will never see the light of day, and this is just for starters.

Cruelly accurate.

{{ Pub window in Dublin, Brexit Day-



European Parliament building-



in the Netherlands have replaced the Union Jack in their Eu flag display with a saltire-



And whilst all of that is very nice, thanks folks! some more practical news-

'Former European Council president Donald Tusk says Brussels feels "empathy" towards an independent Scotland joining the European Union...Mr Tusk's comments come after his predecessor, Herman Van Rompuy, last year said he believes Brexit has changed EU attitudes to Scottish independence.'

and even more importantly-

'Scotland's largest trade union has backed calls for a second independence referendum.
A meeting of Unison's Scottish council has voted in favour of indyref2 at a time to be determined by the Scottish Parliament...Unison's Scottish convenor Lilian Macer said: "This in no way pre-determines the views our members may take in the event of an independence referendum, but they should have the opportunity to express their views. Unison Scotland defends public services and those who deliver them and it is imperative that we explore the full range of options available to the people of Scotland."

The battlelines in the Union debate are being drawn, and so far the SNP have made the majority of the early moves setting up the pieces. But I expect Boris to hit hard when he does. }}

  its gonna be interesting

Oh yes, its going to be interesting--- interesting to watch the UK stumbling up on one knee because the other is so rooted in the mud. Any port you like is bringing goods IN as we cant even grow our own bloody strawberries anymore. No one wants what we blindly think we can still create. The UK will haemorrhage & ooze slowly & we shall all say " what a shame!". Id like to be positive about the state of this country but when you've got Trump & Johnson in bed together & choosing wallpaper I just cant see it.

"when you've got Trump & Johnson in bed together & choosing wallpaper"

Basically, Pie is our only hope.

I noticed that the Tories/Sky news are waging a war of attrition against Bercow. They are determined to destroy him or at least stop his knighthood. What makes me laugh is the idiots calling Bercow names while they happily gave the mass murderer IDS a knighthood.

Well surprise, surprise - The Don and Boris have managed to piss each other off.  Point by point, I have to say I agree with Boris:

https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-ally-boris-johnson-abandoning-president-after-apoplectic-call-2020-2

  well those two narcissistic sociopaths are bound to lock horns sooner or later. I heard Trump is on a one man revenge mission at the moment. That poor military guy got it in the neck.

Yep, Trump's taken over the party by fear. But if he didn't have such rabid supporters the politicians wouldn't be so afraid of him. So this is of our own making. If he was just taking out politicians it would be fine, but he's made a life of destroying little people who get in his way, hence the high casualty rate.

I'd love to see his life destroyed the way he's destroyed so many others.

yeah he is an appalling bully.

{{ So Scary Pratel and Boris have come up with a new immigration scheme- which wont let any unskilled workers in- ie all the people who pick stuff in the fields, who work in care homes, in hotels, factories and in fact many of the people I have worked with for decades.
How will these jobs be filled? Good bloody question, one many unions and employers are asking too.

'The government is urging employers to "move away" from relying on "cheap labour" from Europe and invest in retaining staff and developing automation technology.'- BBC

Automation- they want to take away peoples jobs too!

'The salary threshold for skilled workers wanting to come to the UK would be lowered from £30,000 to £25,600.
However, the government says the threshold would be as low as £20,480 for people in "specific shortage occupations" - which currently include nursing, civil engineering, psychology and classical ballet dancing - or those with PhDs relevant to a specific job.'

Ballet fucking dancers? How out of touch and mad are Tories? Meanwhile I can tell you from painful experience neither care workers nor hotel workers not farm workers, nor factory waorkers earn over even the reduced £20,000 threshold. People we actually need. Who actually do productive stuff. We dont want them, but we'll be fine for fucking ballet dancers in the future!!!!

'The government said it would not introduce a route for lower-skilled/lower-paid workers, urging businesses to "adapt and adjust" to the end of free movement between EU countries and the UK.'

This is obviously a huge problem for especially care and health sectors.

'The Royal College of Nursing said the proposals would "not meet the health and care needs of the population".'

and farmers-

National Farmers' Union president Minette Batters raised "serious concerns" about the "failure to recognise British food and farming's needs".

and the food and drink industry-

'the Food and Drink Federation spoke of concerns about bakers, meat processors and workers making food like cheese and pasta not qualifying under the new system.'

And in Scotland where we have an issue of a falling population thats been going on since the Highland Clearences, and an ageing popualtion, as a result the SNP has been very encouraging over the years to EU citizens to come and work here, and so pay tax, and a lot have (half of those I worked with in care and three-quarter sof those I currentyl work with in the hotel are EU imigrants, including my boss). As a result this is going to hit our industries hard.

'Scotland's First Minister and SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon said the plans would be "devastating" for the Scottish economy.'

Welcome to the start of isolationsist Tory UK. Rule fucking Britiannia! }}

Im English & I agree with you. This country is being led down a fecking long & winding lane full of pot holes, cow dung & blind spots. Only a matter of time before a car crash hits us.

it rapidly going tits up. Cummings will be breeding high-IQ Boys from Brazil next, and euthanizing anyone he doesn't like. say hello to a fascist dictatorship.

{{ Interesting Scottish twist to this immigration policy. The Scottish Tories only recently elected their new leader, Jackson Carlaw. He has been decidedly quiet since the announcement, has made no comment on it to this point only released one of those statements which only succeed in saying nothing, and the rumour mill is he is not happy about it all.
So when in the Chamber for First Ministers Questions the SNP had the opportunity in the exchanges to try to find out what he did think about it, this is how the BBC's excellent Political Editor Brian Taylor put it (one of the most knowlegable and respected political commentars in the country, and who the BBC shamefully took off the air during the Scottish Independence referendum to be replaced by their London political editor Nick Robinson, who was it seemed willing to spin the lies for the Union Mr Taylor would not)-

'Yesterday the UK government published post-Brexit immigration proposals. For the Scots Tories, Jackson Carlaw issued a statement which was a masterpiece in Delphic nuance and caveat.
However, the Scottish party declined to make anyone available for interview to discuss the issue. Which left questions for Mr Carlaw today.
Did he support the UK government's approach? Well, up to a point, Lord Copper. But, reading between the closely packed lines of that statement, he plainly yearned for a distinctive Scottish approach to combat the SNP and content the lieges.
Ms Sturgeon thought so too. She cited reports to the effect that Mr Carlaw was privately angry with his UK colleagues.
However, he had thus far kept his own counsel. He was, declared Ms Sturgeon, "quietly livid". A decidedly apt phrase.
The upshot was that Mr Carlaw was cornered by the wicked media outside the chamber. Did he back the Home Office or not?
The reply, once again, was a master class in diplomatic discourse. The Home Office's proposals had not been fully understood or appreciated.
Equally, there were ideas to commend in the Scottish government's policies on the matter. But what did that mean? Did he back a Scottish visa - an idea described as "deranged" by the prime minister?
With an elegant sidestep, Mr Carlaw sashayed away...He would be having further talks with UK ministers. He hoped, indeed, to see the PM in the near future. This was a "work in progress."
If and when conclusions emerge from those discussions, don't keep them to yourself, Mr Carlaw. Please share.'

Interesting that the Scottish branch of the Tories, having to fight elections in a quite different political sphere than Englands current mad mind set (exceptions such as Azriel and others included of course, but speaking as a political whole) see this policy as being as damaging and as unsuited to Scotlands needs as the other parties here do. But they are in the tricky position that they cannot say it.
This being tied to a leash to the main superior in political power Westminister party is one of the reasons the SNP remain dominant. No one really trusts the other Unionist parties any more to act in the interests of Scotland ahead of Englands interests. And it creates these awkward fudges of policy. Labour is no better with Scottish Labour opposing Trident being in Scotland and Westminister Labour supporting its renewal. Unless the Unionist parties split from their Westminister counterparts this fudge will always exist in policy differences and approach. But of course they cant split as that would be a public acceptance that Scotland is different from England and would be seen as a weakening of the Unionist position.}}

Cummings will be breeding high-IQ Boys from Brazil next, and euthanizing anyone he doesn't like. say hello to a fascist dictatorship.- Figg

{{ The worrying thing is some of his views are not far away from that, and he is effectively running government policy right now.
His paper that he wrote when he was working for Gove at Education and which the Guardian got hold of shows some worrying trends in thinking-

'When people look at the gaps between rich and poor children that already exist at a young age (3-5), they almost universally assume that these differences are because of environmental reasons (‘privileges of wealth’) and ignore genetics.

He then goes onto to say that science can help in identifiying genetic markers for intelligence and personality and that education can therefore then be tailored to these genetics.

'Good  schools,  in  the  sense  of  ‘teaching  children  of  different natural  abilities  as  well  as  possible’,  will  not  ‘eliminate  gaps’  -  they  will  actually  increase  gaps between those of different abilities, but they will also raise floors and averages and give all children the opportunity to make the most of their genetic inheritance (personality as well as IQ).'

And if he wasnt being clear enough the paper was once summed up more succinctly as amounting to -

"People are poor because they have inferior genes and brains. Rich people are rich because they are superior."

Say hello to Eugenics UK!    }}