Re: Music [3]

by halfwise Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:56 pm

Forest Shepherd wrote:
halfwise wrote:BTW I love the interpretation of Moonlight you posted, Bungo, though did you notice an extra beat was thrown in before the melody starts? There's a few points where the accompaniment has some notes emphasized to subtly echo the melody, which is a cool effect I haven't heard before. May be accidental since I only noticed it a couple times.

I didn't hear any extra notes in the Adagio at least, and I do play that at least so I should have been able to. Where were they exactly?

Ah, okay. Not an extra beat. Just a half beat or so hesitation on the first note of the melody. Sounded like more because I didn't hear the note exactly when expected and then the brain struggles to interpret and it always behind.

by bungobaggins Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:37 pm

halfwise wrote:BTW I love the interpretation of Moonlight you posted, Bungo, though did you notice an extra beat was thrown in before the melody starts? There's a few points where the accompaniment has some notes emphasized to subtly echo the melody, which is a cool effect I haven't heard before. May be accidental since I only noticed it a couple times.

I'm assuming you're talking about the first movement. I just followed along with my score (I have the Dover editions that were edited by Schenker) and the performance was note perfect. Sometimes our brains can trick us into thinking we know whats coming next if we haven't listened to something in a while. I know that happens to me.

I post this piece because I had worked on the first two movements when I was younger and just a couple weeks ago decided to tackle the final movement, feeling that I have the tools and training to be able to work on it without a teacher. I was listening to Barenboim and Brendel etc., but then I remembered my old teacher telling me that Beethoven was Richard Goode's "bread and butter." You could pick any of the sonatas and Goode provides a definitive performance. Sort of like Louis Lortie and the Chopin Etudes.

by halfwise Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:37 am

There's a lot of Chopin pieces I'd need to hear, because reading straight off the paper they don't make sense unless you have your head wrapped around it right. Not the etudes, more like the mazurkas and such.

by Forest Shepherd Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:15 am

Holy shit, part of the soundtrack of Out of Africa just came up on my Pandora. *sigh* I'm such a sucker for these sweeping orchestral arrangements, and it had been quite a long time since I last heard it.

by Eldorion Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:23 pm

Seen posted on another forum:

by Lancebloke Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:01 pm

Got 2 gigs booked this year!

Going to see Evanescence in March... Not quite the old band but the new album is good with most of their back catalogue reimagined.

Then off to see Trivium is April. Bit more noise and get to meet the band!

by Forest Shepherd Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:46 pm

That's cool Lance, is Trivium a metal band?

That song Eldo posted is technically excellent of course: It's cool when solo artists use that technique to layer over sounds like that live. It does tend to take you out of the music a bit, but whatever.

Odd how having a song written from a female perspective sung by a man makes it gay. Reminds me of White Town's "I Could Never Be Your Woman", except I think that that song was intentionally written so as to be able to be interpreted in multiple ways.

by halfwise Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:04 pm

The Sheeran song didn't strike me as gay, just an unusual choice. If he wrote it I wonder if it's connected to his upcoming marriage?

by Eldorion Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:07 pm

I didn't personally find the technique distracting.

The cover version could be interpreted as gay, but both male and female singers regularly sing first person songs that are clearly about characters who are distinct from the person of the singer and/or songwriter. The Animals tweaked the lyrics of "The House of the Rising Sun" to be about a male character but there are other male artists, including Leadbelly and Woody Guthrie, who sang it as "it's been the ruin of many a poor girl / and God I know I'm one".

by Eldorion Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:08 pm

Simulpost with Halfy.

halfwise wrote:The Sheeran song didn't strike me as gay, just an unusual choice. If he wrote it I wonder if it's connected to his upcoming marriage?

It was originally recorded by Nina Simone, though according to Wikipedia the song was written by her then-husband.

by Lancebloke Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:48 pm

Forest Shepherd wrote:That's cool Lance, is Trivium a metal band?

Yes they are. Anything from Metallica heavy and upwards really.

by Forest Shepherd Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:22 pm

halfwise wrote:The Sheeran song didn't strike me as gay, just an unusual choice. If he wrote it I wonder if it's connected to his upcoming marriage?

...How is a song with lyrics written from a woman's perspective and directed towards her prospective husband not a "gay song" if sung by a guy? The only way it is not is if we say, "I know that this singer is singing a cover of this song because he wants to cover the song, not because it speaks personally to his feelings toward his future husband". I find it distracting if a personal love song has to be abstracted in that way.

I mean what are you guys even talking about? Are you being contrary in order to try and sound smart?

by Eldorion Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:36 pm

Forest Shepherd wrote:I mean what are you guys even talking about? Are you being contrary in order to try and sound smart?

No, and I'm not sure why you're insinuating that I would be dishonest about this. I don't think that Johnny Cash was actually named Sue by his father or that he shot a man in Reno just to watch him die, either, even though "A Boy Named Sue" and "Folsom Prison Blues" are both sung in the first person and explore the feelings of the characters they are about. Nor do I find it distracting for a singer to sing about a character who is clearly not themselves.

by Forest Shepherd Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:26 am

I was a bit snippy because I was annoyed by the idea that the identity of the singer exists independently of the identity expressed in a song that is written from a specific perspective of sex. Maybe robots hear music in this way, but not humans.

Ed Sheeran is not singing about a character that is clearly not him. He is singing a first-person love song that is about loving your future husband. Clearly he is a man, so the meaning of the song changes. It is now a song about a man loving their future husband because the singer's identity immediately and obviously informs on the "story" of the song.

If the song's lyrics were written in the third-person, then the identity of the singer would not inform on the "story" of the song.

Johnny Cash tells stories in both of those pieces of music. "Folsom Prison Blues" is the story of a regretful man in prison, "A Boy Named Sue" is the story of a son confronting his father over burdening him with a girl's name. Does the latter work as well when sung by Miley Cyrus? I think not.

Am I saying that I disliked the song? No. I liked it. It was masterfully played. Is it a gay song when sung by Sheeran? Yes, I really don't see how one can say that it isn't.

by Eldorion Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:55 am

Forest Shepherd wrote:I was a bit snippy because I was annoyed by the idea that the identity of the singer exists independently of the identity expressed in a song that is written from a specific perspective of sex. Maybe robots hear music in this way, but not humans.

Beep boop. Processing. My programming says it's kinda weird to get annoyed by the fact that other people have different opinions about how to interpret a song, but okay.

by Forest Shepherd Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:05 am

Oh there have been stranger things over which people got annoyed around here, for what that's worth!

I feel irritable, best go read a book I think.

by Eldorion Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:40 am

by bungobaggins Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:01 pm

Halfy if you are interested this is a good lecture by Schiff on Op. 27 no. 2. (I could have sworn these used to be up on youtube with video, but I guess those were taken down.) There are some very interesting insights here, including a possible Mozart influence for the first movement.

by halfwise Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:02 pm

Oo cool! And thanks! Very Happy

by azriel Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:19 pm

Enjoyed that much better with subtitles Bungo. Now, I can understand & get into the story better. Opera has always eluded me because I didn't understand what they were singing. That's the trouble with foreigners, its all foreign Very Happy

by Bluebottle Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:57 pm

Eldorion wrote:Seen posted on another forum:

Cool. I always liked Sheeran, alth, to me his songwriting is a bit on and off.

Talking Nina Simone:

by halfwise Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:38 pm

bungobaggins wrote:Halfy if you are interested this is a good lecture by Schiff on Op. 27 no. 2. (I could have sworn these used to be up on youtube with video, but I guess those were taken down.) There are some very interesting insights here, including a possible Mozart influence for the first movement.

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I got a lot out of that, Bungo. In fact after the "moonlight" lecture I looked up the Pathetique, which Youtube rolled right into a discussion of Bach. Good stuff.

by Bluebottle Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:21 pm

by bungobaggins Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:10 pm

azriel wrote:Enjoyed that much better with subtitles Bungo. Now, I can understand & get into the story better. Opera has always eluded me because I didn't understand what they were singing. That's the trouble with foreigners, its all foreign

A lot of people may find opera to be inaccessible. Maybe they don't like the music, can't understand the language, or just don't want to sit and listen to something that averages around 2.5 to 3 hours in length. But I think if people would take the time, be patient, and open up their minds, they can find stories that are just as, if not, more compelling than today's average movie.

by bungobaggins Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:13 pm

halfwise wrote:I got a lot out of that, Bungo. In fact after the "moonlight" lecture I looked up the Pathetique, which Youtube rolled right into a discussion of Bach. Good stuff.

I'm glad you enjoyed it. I always liked going to lecture recitals. They were always more relaxed, and definitely more informative than regular recitals.