FREEDOM!!!! [4]

Bluebottle wrote:Because we are talking about a government scheme the Tories and the right wing press want abolished, and they are looking for redress in another system they want abolished from national law. (I do find the hypocrisy entertaining, however.)

actually its the majority of parents who want it scrapped. I find your wading into the argument just to make swipes at the Tories who don't even figure in this argument quite entertaining.

''The facts are the facts- I don't now if in-practise the scheme will work or not, I hope it does I hope it saves lives. But what I do know is its not a totalitarian plot to take control of the nations children or indoctrinate them into the SNP! '' Petty.


well I sincerely hope it does work Petty, because at the end of the day, its all about protecting kids and helping parents not hindering them. I have serious doubts about imposing these outsiders on family units, it smacks of state interference to me, but the proof will no doubt surface sooner or later. lets hope it really does prevent another tragedy.

{{Whatever else Figg I do believe that is the primary intention and aim of the legislation- it just wouldn't get the backing form the people it has and the courts if it were any other thing}}}

Mrs Figg wrote:

Bluebottle wrote:Because we are talking about a government scheme the Tories and the right wing press want abolished, and they are looking for redress in another system they want abolished from national law. (I do find the hypocrisy entertaining, however.)

actually its the majority of parents who want it scrapped. I find your wading into the argument just to to among other things, like clarifying the legal position and referencing the relevant court cases, which to my mind should have been seen as helpful by all parties, make swipes at the Tories who's role in this argument I find less important don't even figure in this argument quite entertaining.

Fixed that for you.

And since when was joining in a discussion on a forum with relevant points frowned upon?

I might make a run through of the legal points if I have the time. The issue, as the Scottish courts noted, does have a potential issue with EU data protection rules.

{{{Your very welcome to Blue, you just jumped on a prickly Figg, trust me that can hurt!

I thought if you find the time you might like to peruse the judgement its a bit heavy going for me.
As the data protection bit is where my concerns lie with it I'd be interested on anything you can glean from this with your lawyers eye}}}

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=8a55eaa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

'Scotland is the most highly educated country in Europe and among the best-educated in the world, according to new figures released by the Office for National Statistics (ONS).
Scotland is also up with Luxembourg and Finland among the most well-educated in the world in terms of tertiary education attainment.
"In terms of the proportion of the population going into higher and tertiary education, Scotland actually has just about the highest in the world," said ONS chief economic adviser Joe Grice.
"Scotland also does very well in terms of people in the working-age population (16-64) that have got a qualification at NVQ4 or above."- ITV News


{{{If thats true how come I know so many bloody idiots!! }}}}

[quote="Pettytyrant101"
{{{If thats true how come I know so many bloody idiots!!    }}}}

[/quote]

Alcohol is The Great Leveler

That's a pretty scruffy looking golf course.

Well, it is wildly unpopular.. rather.. like.. its.. owner..

{{Now indy2 seems on the cards looks like this thread will be of use agin!

The Daily Record- a popular Scottish tabloid- who supported no in the last referendum, and who famously carried on their front page 'The Vow' days befopre the vote- the pledge made by Brown in the name of the Unionist parties that was basically devo-max in all but name, and which was seen by some as helping swing the vote to the Unionist side.

This was their front page in the wake of the EU vote-



Seems the Daily Record might be having a shift in position.

With Scottish Labour having previously said in the event of another referendum, the party position would be for the union, but this time individual MSP's can vote and campaign according to conscience, and maybe a less partisan press this could be very different from last time.}}

Hmm, speaking as someone who was leaning towards keeping the union in 2014, I now see few reasons not to potentially hold a second indy referendum, Scotland and England have been moving apart politically and culturally for years, it was inevitable.

But...some of the same issues talked about in 2014-currency, the price of oil are still problematic, if not worse (would Scotland accept the Euro?), you'd also have to wonder whether an Independent Scotland would have enough to offer the E.U to make a fast tracked bid to enter it feasible.

Also, The result was 62/38, only slighty higher that London's 60/40 and the latter is currently being touted as a bastion of pro-europe views, the turnout in Scotland was much lower proportionally than elsewhere in the Union...

I was in favour of the Union too, but now I think its very unfair that the Scottish have to suffer the consequences of these Tory fools. Any support I had for my countries various political parties and their policies have gone. I don't recognise my own country and it doesn't represent me. I am done.

Mrs Figg wrote:I was in favour of the Union too, but now I think its very unfair that the Scottish have to suffer the consequences of these Tory fools. Any support I had for my countries various political parties and their policies have gone. I don't recognise my own country and it doesn't represent me. I am done.

In fairness you haven't lived permanent in the UK for what, 20 years? The UK has changed enormously in the past two decades, I can certainly understand the reasons why people voted leave even if I don't agree with them...

malickfan wrote:

Mrs Figg wrote:I was in favour of the Union too, but now I think its very unfair that the Scottish have to suffer the consequences of these Tory fools. Any support I had for my countries various political parties and their policies have gone. I don't recognise my own country and it doesn't represent me. I am done.

In fairness you haven't lived permanent in the UK for what, 20 years? The UK has changed enormously in the past two decades, I can certainly understand the reasons why people voted leave even if I don't agree with them...

I am in the UK 50% of the time so I am aware of whats changing in UK society, I have seen it unfold but its very little to do with the EU, after all we have been in the EU for 40 years without problems, the problem as I see it is uncontrolled immigration from countries Outside the EU in particular Bangladesh and Pakistan where values and cultures are alien to British ones in terms of treatment of females. A few Polish workers isn't the problem. Its the burkahs and the rapid Islamification of the UK. That's what people resent, that and the Tory governments total betrayal of the poor and disabled. This vote was a protest vote trying to punish the so called elites but the elites are not those who will suffer.

https://waitingfortax.com/2016/06/25/can-the-scottish-parliament-block-brexit/

A lot of it was scaremongery, The politicians grasp the thing that pissed people off & ran with it & used it for their own agenda. We dont have ONE ballsy, gutsy person that will stand & be as confident to see the job thru. Name me ONE politician youde feel happy & relaxed about being in power ? I cant. This lot, Boris & his ilk, will scurry like rats now. Cameron was too complacent, he sat back too far in his cosy armchair. He was so busy thinking ahead 10 yrs that he forgot the here & now. Thats the risk he too, by not listening & doing. Now he'll pay the price. All people wanted was a fairer bite of the cherry, no one looked like they could do it. People wanted a grip on Immigration, again, wasnt seen to be doing. And I guess people do get worried to the point of panic when Islam raises its Burkha. Did the British people feel alone ? I think many thought it will get worse & we, the British, will be shoved on the back burner, last in our own country. That seemed to be the only thing the mp's could shout long & loud about. As I said, they took peoples fears & ran with it. What would a Tudor King have done ? Im sure old 'Enery would have put his ulcerated leg down.

Three opinion polls carried out since Thursday's referendum have suggested that the result has boosted support for Scottish independence, with support put at 52%, 54% and 59%. - BBC Scotland

{{{I reckon Sturgeon will not call a referendum until she sees that figure at 60 or above and holding for a period of time. }}}

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/snp/nicola-sturgeon/news/76635/david-cameron-tells-scots-forget-second

{{Strugeon has made it quite clear that as far as she is concerned the rule book is out the window- that includes the bit about the Scottish Parliament having to go though the Foreign Office- she has already ignored that to engage with talks with Gibraltar-

'Fabian Picardo, the territory's chief minister, told the BBC he was speaking to Scotland's First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, about various options....."I can imagine a situation where some parts of what is today the member state United Kingdom are stripped out and others remain," Mr Picardo told Newsnight.'

And the SNP have already had informal talks with EU partners-

' A Scottish government minister has said he received a "sympathetic hearing" from his European counterparts over Scotland's bid to remain in the EU.
Farming minister Fergus Ewing said he had informal talks with other agriculture ministers in Brussels.
He said senior European officials told him that they would like to see Scotland as the EU's 28th member state.'

It would be crazy for any Westminster government if there is a way for Scotland/Gibraltar and NI to remain members without England and Wales, to try to block it and force us all out. That would guarantee independence would follow and God knows what it might spark in NI- and forces Gibraltar to choose between UK and Spain.

Sturgeon doen't want a referendum at the moment, this isn't her timetable, but she is using it as the leverage she needs right now to get stuff done without Westminster stopping her. Canny lass.   }}}

this stuff is very Game of Thrones pity there isn't a load of wildfire under the Houses of P.

{{Well Sturgeon is getting on with things while Westminster continues its pathetic meltdown- }}

'Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has set up a "standing council" of experts to provide her with advice following the Brexit vote.
Ms Sturgeon, who will travel to Brussels on Wednesday for talks, said she was "utterly determined" to protect Scotland's relationship with Europe.
Scotland's leader said the expert council would be chaired by Professor Anton Muscatelli, Glasgow University's principal and vice chancellor, and would have 17 members, including politicians, economists and constitutional experts.
Ms Sturgeon explained: "Members will consider the impact of proposed changes to the UK's relationship with the EU on Scottish interests and advise ministers throughout our negotiations on the best way to secure Scottish interests and objectives."
The SNP leader also said that while she was not seeking endorsement to hold a second independence referendum "today", she would put the option forward if it emerged as the only or best way to protect Scotland's place in the EU.'- BBC Scotland