Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

I'm trying to be nice!!

Oh, don't worry. I enjoy a good discussion about video game structure.

malickfan wrote:

Stig wrote:

Mrs Figg wrote:

Stig wrote:
Damn! I couldn't read any of that, I am banned. how frustrating.

I'm confused. You have to be a member just to read the forums? I thought you just couldn't post. That's odd. I wasn't signed in to read the forum, just lurking.

Figgs has been banned Four Times I think, maybe they banned her IP address from being able to access the forum?

Ok. I'm gonna lay off TORN. I swear I will. But I just gotta ask: isn't that a bit extreme? She can't even access the page as a lurker? Dude. Seriously. That's some straight up palantir shit. Not cool at all. Unless she posted porn or threatened someone there I'd say Saruman is in charge of that site. I never would've thought that of them prior to the "Hobbit" trilogy. My how the mighty have fallen. But I suppose, if their rules are no criticism of the films, they've every right to ban her. I'm sure Tolkien would be proud of TORN.
(Okay I'll stop now. Sorry. But, damn, even beer, Bob Marley and a day off can't conceal my disappointment in TORN.)

Eldorion wrote:Never would have guessed that Alfrid would be the breakout character of BOFA.

+1
But according to Boyens "He was just so great."

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Um its sort of escalated a bit over there I'm afraid Figg. Would be rather a lot to repost.
Still a crabbit old bastards work is never done!

They must've edited your posts out, cuz I only saw one post by you and no responses to you. So very civil.

Bluebottle wrote:Reading through the fall out now.

Did you see anything? I didn't. The thread I read contains nary an opposing opinion, except one by Petty and maybe two more tame ones.

azriel wrote:I thought it was a crock of shit !
 Hello Chris, did you have a good Christmas

Yes thnkx, and you.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I'm trying to be nice!!

Oh man. I finally found your review at TORN. All I can say is you're a better man than me. I would not have had the patience. I'm really upset that no one engaged your post. You were either told you shouldn't post that there because you've posted it elsewhere or were ignored completely. No mods jumping in to defend your right to be posting there, let alone defending your position. From now on, should I speak of that site, they shall be referred to as (T)ORC/ (T)ORCers.

In reference to Legolas' God of War moves. I remember mentally yawing at them thinking ("I've already seen this. How ironic that these movies have gone from ripping off the trilogy that preceded them to videogames, note for note.") PJ, the gagmeister, can't even think up his own gags anymore? With a team of thousands thats what he comes up with? Again, I'd love to been able to have heard production meetings (and seen some reactions from his team, Richard Taylor, Alex Funke and Howard Shore most of all.)

Stig wrote:From now on, should I speak of that site, they shall be referred to as (T)ORC/ (T)ORCers.

That seems like it would be pretty confusing considering there is a completely unrelated Tolkien fansite that has gone by TORC (TheOneRing.com) for over a decade.

Edit: I feel compelled to point out that more than half the people who responded to Petty's post in public were either positive about the review or constructive in their feedback about it, and apparently there were even more who liked it an PM'd him about it.  There were really only like three people being attacking Petty personally in that thread, and only one of them made any reference to Forumshire. Now I do think that people who are assholes when promoting a pro-movie viewpoint are cut more slack by mods than those who argue against the films (though I've been told this isn't quite as bad as it used to be, I can't say for myself if this is true), that's not really a strong basis for writing off everyone who posts on the forum as a troll.

Dammit Petty I want to know everything! its soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo frustrating not knowing.

gimme some beef. or at least some spam. ok maybe not spam, sausage, Nope. defo not sausage!   , erm just gimme some tofu.

Stig wrote:

malickfan wrote:

Stig wrote:

Mrs Figg wrote:

Stig wrote:
Damn! I couldn't read any of that, I am banned. how frustrating.

I'm confused. You have to be a member just to read the forums? I thought you just couldn't post. That's odd. I wasn't signed in to read the forum, just lurking.

Figgs has been banned Four Times I think, maybe they banned her IP address from being able to access the forum?

Ok. I'm gonna lay off TORN. I swear I will. But I just gotta ask: isn't that a bit extreme? She can't even access the page as a lurker? Dude. Seriously. That's some straight up palantir shit. Not cool at all. Unless she posted porn or threatened someone there I'd say Saruman is in charge of that site. I never would've thought that of them prior to the "Hobbit" trilogy. My how the mighty have fallen. But I suppose, if their rules are no criticism of the films, they've every right to ban her. I'm sure Tolkien would be proud of TORN.
(Okay I'll stop now. Sorry. But, damn, even beer, Bob Marley and a day off can't conceal my disappointment in TORN.)

no its not cool they wont allow me to lurk, but its not like I really want to hang out there any more, its gone a bit flat for me, theres only so much squee-ing I can take.

Mrs Figg wrote:I have a strange sense of ennui, its odd that its all over but the film has left me with nothing. You know when you watch a great film and the day after you think about it and want to discuss it, well the BO5A has left me feeling empty and dissatisfied. Junk food, ok at the time but you really wish you hadn't indulged afterwards.

Clearly you don't indulge in the right sort of junk food Mrs. Figg!

Stig wrote:Ok. I'm gonna lay off TORN. I swear I will. But  I just gotta ask: isn't that a bit extreme? She can't even access the page as a lurker? Dude. Seriously. That's some straight up palantir shit. Not cool at all. Unless she posted porn or threatened someone there I'd say Saruman is in charge of that site. I never would've thought that of them prior to the "Hobbit" trilogy. My how the mighty have fallen. But I suppose, if their rules are no criticism of the films, they've every right to ban her. I'm sure Tolkien would be proud of TORN.
(Okay I'll stop now. Sorry. But, damn, even beer, Bob Marley and a day off can't conceal my disappointment in TORN.)

Are you somehow under the impression that TORN didn't IP ban people until the past few years? It's a common practice on many forums, especially with people who create new accounts to avoid bans, which Mrs Figg has said she's done. Btw, I'm baffled by how you keep talking about TORn's supposed moral decline. People on other Tolkien forums have been complaining about their pro-PJ biases for the last 10-15 years. I know you've mentioned other people who have left torn recently, but their issues with PJ criticism were around long before The Hobbit caused more people to become personally disillusioned with the films.

Malickfan wrote:I have to admit...I do find it funny you had the much impact on the forum just by being honest.

Give Figgy some credit guys. She went off on their mods in her trademark style, and most forums have a low tolerance for that sort of thing. You gotta admit that their response was not surprising. Not everyone is used to Figgy's style.

Eldorion wrote:

Malickfan wrote:I have to admit...I do find it funny you had the much impact on the forum just by being honest.

Give Figgy some credit guys. She went off on their mods in her trademark style, and most forums have a low tolerance for that sort of thing. You gotta admit that their response was not surprising. Not everyone is used to Figgy's style.

True, I guess we are used to Figgs straight to the point style, but that's what I meant, honest as she saw things

Typically enough I can't find anything in any of the links about any of this drama.
I guess I missed out, ah well.

Why on [Middle-]earth was there a bloody troll in the movie that had no hands or feet, but instead giant cork-like stick-stumps?

I remember Angmar quite well from the early years of my time spent in Lord of the Rings Online. I fought many battles in the fabled strongholds of Carn Dum and Urugarth. I've never heard of Gundabad before though, is this an invented location? I think I'm going to go look it up right now. I'll probably edit this post to include what I find out; that's what I usually do.

Edit:
It's where Durin the Deathless awoke! Awesome, apparently it is a mountain with three conjoined peaks at the northern end of the Misty Mountains. So it was part of the kingdom of Angmar, but not really a capital of Angmar: its importance came afterwards when Angmar fell and Mt. Gundabad survived as a fortress of the orcs. It is from there, of course, that Bolg and the orcish armies gathered and attacked the Lonely Mountain once they heard of Smaug's death.

Forest Shepherd wrote:Typically enough I can't find anything in any of the links about any of this drama.
I guess I missed out, ah well.

Why on [Middle-]earth was there a bloody troll in the movie that had no hands or feet, but instead giant cork-like stick-stumps?

Don't remember that one, I suppose Trolls don't have much other purpose than to fight and die, if it's limbs were missing it would still be able to fight/lumber into battle I suppose, Jackson liked grotesque/weird looking monsters anyway. The real question is...do they explain in the films why the trolls in the BOTFA don't turn into stone?

Forest Shepherd wrote:It's where Durin the Deathless awoke! Awesome, apparently it is a mountain with three conjoined peaks at the northern end of the Misty Mountains. So it was part of the kingdom of Angmar, but not really a capital of Angmar: its importance came afterwards when Angmar fell and Mt. Gundabad survived as a fortress of the orcs. It is from there, of course, that Bolg and the orcish armies gathered and attacked the Lonely Mountain once they heard of Smaug's death.

Yes, it is actually a canonical location

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Gundabad

Maybe we'll get a reference to Durin's birth place in the EE.

Is it just me or the appearance of Rangers of The North, Dol Guldor, The Nine, Legolas and Aragorn's implied adventures after BOTFA are setting things up for a spin off

Eldorion wrote:

Stig wrote:From now on, should I speak of that site, they shall be referred to as (T)ORC/ (T)ORCers.

That seems like it would be pretty confusing considering there is a completely unrelated Tolkien fansite that has gone by TORC (TheOneRing.com) for over a decade.

Edit: I feel compelled to point out that more than half the people who responded to Petty's post in public were either positive about the review or constructive in their feedback about it, and apparently there were even more who liked it an PM'd him about it.  There were really only like three people being attacking Petty personally in that thread, and only one of them made any reference to Forumshire.  Now I do think that people who are assholes when promoting a pro-movie viewpoint are cut more slack by mods than those who argue against the films (though I've been told this isn't quite as bad as it used to be, I can't say for myself if this is true), that's not really a strong basis for writing off everyone who posts on the forum as a troll.

Shows what I know about other Tolkien sites.

Maybe I sped through the thread, but I didn't see much response to Petty. But facts are facts and you may be right. I'll have to go look again (if I care enough to). But it's hard not to notice the trend for critical responses.

However we'll have to agree to disagree on (what I deem) as TORN's demise. Like I said I was there since 2000 and in no way was the pro-film vs criticism sentiment as heated during the LOTR era, nor were the mods so heavy handed. In fact the idea that Petty had to be PMed positive feedback of his review demonstrates that: people would feel marginalized for openly agreeing with him.

Furthermore the staff weren't so obviously strained between their personal feelings and keeping a working professional relationship with the filmmaking team.

My criticism of the site (like that of the films) is not just to be talking shit, it's because I notice a negative trend in something I used to once enjoy and felt apart of. And the only way I know of to try and put the breaks on it is saying something about it. Maybe they, themselves, don't notice.

I don't know the situation with certain people being banned or any other personal/"political" dealings going on, so I probably shouldn't be commenting on that. I'm just pointing out what I've seen. It is probably true that the non-movie threads are much more civil and may also be true that some of the old members are coming back (I haven't seen any on the movie threads, in fact I've seen more disappear since Smaug.)

I understand your position in trying to give fairness to TORN and how overwhelming it may seem with all the snide and snarkiness coming from some of us, but ultimately I think you may be glossing over some serious problems there. Problems that I feel fully justified, having been a heavy participant and never banned there for almost 15 years, in calling out. I think I'm in a good position to judge (but others here, who may've been there just as long also disagree with me. So who knows. The old site is gone and my memory is perhaps colored by nostalgia. But I really don't think so.) And again, I left there on my own accord.

I do want to add, though, that this behavior is not just TORN. There are a number of people working on the project that have lamented changes in PJ, but also tread carefully and professionally, as not to piss off the director with new found power in the business. I get all that too. Professionalism, trying to keep your job, etc., but it doesn't make for good art.  And that's where we powerless forum members on the net come in. We don't have to worry about our jobs, so we're the only ones that can speak clearly. Kinda like politics or students watching their schools change in ways that are at odds with their traditional purpose. (Not that I'm conflating these films with that level of importance, but the same issues apply.)

The most basic issue is that they just sold out. I get that they're volunteers, etc. etc. but it's gotten to the point where they're being heavy handed in fear of their "sponsors" or (would be sponsors) and it's a very disappointing turn of events. Every day I think "maybe I'm being just a bit too crabbit and not seeing clearly." Then I pop every now and again and roll my eyes.

I actually feel sorry for the rock and hard place most of the staff are stuck between. It's quite obvious. I remember one of the mods saying something to that effect publicly on the forums once.

Other than adhering to some basic etiquette, which you all have rightly pointed out that I was ignorant of, I'm not sure what else to say on my end.

EDIT: I forgot to add my biggest point. I feel that if the staff were more open with their own criticisms of the films, that most  forum members would be me open and tolerant to the more critical forum members. I don't think this was possible the first time around, because most staffers were happy with the films and were more able to discuss their disappointments because the disappointments were not overriding, whereas with the Hobbit movies the reverse is true.

malickfan wrote:

Forest Shepherd wrote:It's where Durin the Deathless awoke! Awesome, apparently it is a mountain with three conjoined peaks at the northern end of the Misty Mountains. So it was part of the kingdom of Angmar, but not really a capital of Angmar: its importance came afterwards when Angmar fell and Mt. Gundabad survived as a fortress of the orcs. It is from there, of course, that Bolg and the orcish armies gathered and attacked the Lonely Mountain once they heard of Smaug's death.

Yes, it is actually a canonical location

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Gundabad

Maybe we'll get a reference to Durin's birth place in the EE.

Is it just me or the appearance of Rangers of The North, Dol Guldor, The Nine, Legolas and Aragorn's implied adventures after BOTFA are setting things up for a spin off

The bridge movie.
I went with my family and at that moment in the film, literally one of them whispered to me "Is there another one [movie] coming?"

Is is it just me or did Gundabad look like a recycled Black Gate location complete with Legolas and Tauriel as Frodo and Sam hiding behind the rock?