Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

with no sleeves. and corks on a hat.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
Although hard not to admire a nation whose national heo is a bloke wearing an old iron boiler telling the authorities to fuck off.

Crocodile Dundee?!

nah mate Ned Kelly.

hahahah. that is seriously the best description of ned kelly I've ever read. I actually live in the area he grew up in and staged his various robberies and police-murders (not to mention the siege wherein he donned the aforementioned iron boiler.) My local museum has the green Irish sash he wore at the time, still stained with his 150 year old blood.

Alas I agree with Stig, TORN deserves a thorough takedown.

A takedown for what?  Having a majority of movie fans?  That's been the case there for 15 years; it's not a recent development at all.  Are they worthy of scorn because they attract lots of newbies and fanboys?  That's inevitable given the prominence they enjoy thanks to their news blog, and frankly, the tribalism on here gets just as bad as TORn at times, with the only real difference being that the mods here don't delete posts.  Speaking of mods though, if it's their moderation policies that make you guys hate TORn so much, you'd better never join 90% of Internet forums, or you might have an aneurysm when they start deleting posts in order to keep their forum from devolving into a circle jerk about how much everyone hates the people who post on a different site.

Eldorion wrote:A takedown for what?  Having a majority of movie fans?  That's been the case there for 15 years; it's not a recent development at all.  Are they worthy of scorn because they attract lots of newbies and fanboys?  That's inevitable given the prominence they enjoy thanks to their news blog, and frankly, the tribalism on here gets just as bad as TORn at times, with the only real difference being that the mods here don't delete posts.  Speaking of mods though, if it's their moderation policies that make you guys hate TORn so much, you'd better never join 90% of Internet forums, or you might have an aneurysm when they start deleting posts in order to keep their forum from devolving into a circle jerk about how much everyone hates the people who post on a different site.

Well I think the tone there is a recent development. I'm not here to pick a fight about another forum, but I was over there in it's early stages and I stand behind my comments of how they've devolved over the years and are extreme passive aggressive bullies. I'm not sure how much you've been able to see of the changes to the site over the years, but I can assure you at least some of their own staffers have (quietly tried to) voice their own displeasure about the new tone there.

So to answer your question, no they're not worthy of scorn for attracting newbs and fanboys. They're worthy of scorn for their dishonesty (some staffers aren't happy with the films or change in tone at the site, but keep their mouths shut because of the PR machine and ties to the filmmakers.), because of this new trend in marginalizing Tolkien himself, (he wasn't perfect, but the amount of fawning over how Boyens has "improved" his material is alarming), And finally,because of scorn and the cold shoulder given to forum members with a critical view. I literally saw one thread where every pro-view was greeted by mods with some sort of "'thumbs up" response, and the critical posts were completely ignored as if they didn't exist. Not very welcoming. It's becoming policy there, and I've been around there (since 2000) long enough to see the changes. I mean, hell, Petty doesn't even want to post his very valid and non-inflammatory review about the newest Hobbit film on the biggest Hobbit site. C'mon now.

That said I don't want to get off on the wrong foot here. I needed to release some crabbit, and it was also part of the explanation of what lead me here so that's that.

But since we're all talking about Ned Kelly:

TranshumanAngel wrote:hahahah. that is seriously the best description of ned kelly I've ever read. I actually live in the area he grew up in and staged his various robberies and police-murders (not to mention the siege wherein he donned the aforementioned iron boiler.) My local museum has the green Irish sash he wore at the time, still stained with his 150 year old blood.

And this is the country that gave us The Seekers?!

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Petty, please tell me that you posted this review in TORN.- Stig

Mmmm. I wouldn't want it look like I was doing it just to bam them up. On the other hand it is my honest assessment of the film on first viewing- its got worse since I started editing the bloody thing

And I suspect rather a few folks from ToRN who perhaps would not like it to be known, occasionally lurk here.
Though I do wish they would occasional pop into the Muck'n' Duck and buy me a round.

Well I again encourage you to. Temper it if you must, so you're not taken as a troll but, remember, you're not banned and this is the last time you'll get to do so. I find it abhorrent that you even have to second guess your decision at all. You should feel free to do so as long as you're not being an ass (I'm American. ) about it.

And please add something about Azog using that heavy makeshift mace thing during a fight on (apparently thin) ice.

I agree about the passive aggressive bully bit over there. Some of them are so its pointless denying it. That said a lot of the folks over there are interesting and thoughtful and are a pleasure to talk to. I certainly didn't go over there to troll, just voice some crabbit and defend Tolkien from the numpties who say Jackson has 'improved; him. At the end of the day I am attracted to Tolkien sites in general and I go there to discuss these films generally, I don't go to cause trouble, so its irritating and worrying when free speech is quashed. But we know they are like that so is pointless trying to fight against it, they have the delete button.

Sorry if I came off as unwelcoming Stig. I'm glad you found this forum and that you enjoy it. The anti-TORn sentiment on here has been around for a while and I don't want us to come across as the TORn rejects board, but you've got the right to express your frustrations. I appreciate your posts in all sorts of different threads, too. It's good to have you here.

Ah Eldo- our dear Admin Stig does worry about such things- and he is quite right too its his job!

I am with him on general on this- I am no big fan of ToRN but I do still make occasional posts there and I have even had one or two good debates there in the past with good folk.
And I am not above bit of humour at ToRN's expense- but I am less comfortable when it looks like rivelry because that emotion never comes without a twinge of jealousy driving it, and I see nothing to be jealous of- I am immensely proud to be a part of this little community.
And I get uncomfortable also when individual posters from ToRn are called out by name where they cannot defend themselves.
Yes the Mod presence and certain posters seem to have a bias towards PJ and Co but that is their privilege, just as its ours to have a relaxed Mod presence and to rarely curb free speech save where it turns to abuse towards another person or directly contravenes the rules of the people who host us- like posting pornography.
Those are our lines, but every forum has its own lines.


And like Eldo's thoughts this is not aimed at you Stig, this has been raising its head on and off for some time- no problems with anyone letting off steam about ToRN at all. Just to often and we start to look somewhat bitter.
And you're posts elsewhere Stig as Eldo said make me think you will fit in just fine and be a welcome addition to the ranks of Forumshires citizens of refugees.
(PJ bashing of course is perfectly acceptable- its fine to bash someone who cant hear you anyway from the top of his monstrous pile of gold!)

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Ah Eldo- our dear Admin Stig does worry about such things- and he is quite right too its his job!

I am with him on general on this- I am no big fan of ToRN but I do still make occasional posts there and I have even had one or two good debates there in the past with good folk.
And I am not above  bit of humour at ToRN's expense- but I am less comfortable when it looks like rivelry because that emotion never comes without a twinge of jealousy driving it, and I see nothing to be jealous of- I am immensely proud to be a part of this little community.
And I get uncomfortable also when individual posters from ToRn are called out by name where they cannot defend themselves.
Yes the Mod presence and certain posters seem to have a bias towards PJ and Co but that is their privilege, just as its ours to have a relaxed Mod presence and to rarely curb free speech save where it turns to abuse towards another person or directly contravenes the rules of the people who host us- like posting pornography.
Those are our lines, but every forum has its own lines.


And like Eldo's thoughts this is not aimed at you Stig, this has been raising its head on and off for some time- no problems with anyone letting off steam about ToRN at all. Just to often and we start to look somewhat bitter.
And you're posts elsewhere Stig as Eldo said make me think you will fit in just fine and be a welcome addition to the ranks of Forumshires citizens of refugees.  
(PJ bashing of course is perfectly acceptable- its fine to bash someone who cant hear you anyway from the top of his monstrous pile of gold!)

You're right. Naming names was a dick move on my part (or whatever the Brit/Aussie equivalent is. (Scots are "Brits", correct?)). I usually wouldn't go that far, but I've long suspected certain forum members as industry plants. But I have no way of knowing, so that's the last time I'll do that. Feel free to nix that post.

Yes, I've had friends over at TORN, particularly pre-Hobbit release (Oh how I wish the film was still in development hell ) and I actually wouldn't have left but I was beginning to feel that my marginalization there because of my criticisms were actually starting to affect those who socialized with me there. That and I just couldn't stomach the pandering.

And when I peeked in there to see TORNers reaction to Viggo Mortensen's (well observed) comments on the new trilogy I almost lost it. Wow. I felt annoyed on his behalf.

Well enough of that.

I've got a more important issues to discuss, like once Bard received that big ass black harpoon, did he really grab his bow as if he was gonna use it to shoot that thing ?!

I will say that TORN's reading room has some great posters- the current LOTR read through is awesome (mostly because a certain Squire is posting there a lot). So it definitely has that going for it. It has been a little quiet recently but after the films it seems to be picking up a bit, and a few veteran posters are returning.

Stig wrote: And this is the country that gave us The Seekers?!

Oh man, we were a savage bunch back in the day

ELE guys. That is all.

RA is still dedicated to his mantra I see I admire your perseverance

I wish the film ended with Bilbo back in his home, hes looking around his empty abode & it had that nostalgic, funny feeling about it. But no, peejers just HAD to stretch it out & next we see Old Bilbo, finishing off his memoirs, Gandalf at the door & its now the start of FOTR ! That ruined it for me. But, it shows peejers isnt the great film maker he thinks he is. This last film of the 3 was the weakest. It was so disjointed & incomprehensible, I cant think off the top of my head a film with a worse play run ? No focus, no edge, I couldnt care less who died or didnt, I wasnt stirred or shocked or left wondering what was to happen next. It was like a mid morning TV chat show, going from one subject to another. The Battle wasnt even the main focus, I dont know actually what was ? And as for the script ! It was to ludicrous for words. Was this really the hall mark of a renowned film maker, caught up in the publics eye ? A name synonymous now with the fantasy of LOTRs ? I found it disturbing that the high standard that was expected from peejers was worse in this film than in any other Ive seen ? To me there is absolutely nothing that warrants even so much as a chocolate coin off the christmas tree for this aberration. It felt like peejers has got lazy & lost the way, & it cannot be hidden, its there in full view. Such a disappointing end to The Hobbit. Im so glad I didnt pin my time on this. Did the actors feel it also ? It seemed there was real camaraderie, love & affection between all on LOTRs, but with The Hobbit ??  I cant imagine the overwhelming feeling when they shot the last take ! Unless it was relief ? !

I've got a more important issues to discuss, like once Bard received that big ass black harpoon, did he really grab his bow as if he was gonna use it to shoot that thing ?! Extremely Crabbit

And the other thing about that, how did he actually get the bow string tight enough to fire it that way, and why didn't the feathers on that arrow, cut the heck out of his son's face, neck, and shoulder?

The whole sequence seemed preposterous to me. I know there's the whole suspend belief thin b but the whole concept was so laughable it was just bad.

what gets me is the vast amount of talent and money that went into the making of these films they somehow made a turkey. amateurish in places as Petty has set out in detail, the plot lines didn't go anywhere, the dialogue was 3rd rate fan fiction, the cgi obvious and in places, bad. Over the lot of it they painted over the cracks with overbearing teal/orange gloop dripping over the landscapes. The characters were deformed into parody of themselves like Elrond and Galadriel, legolas and a laughably Mr nastypants Thranduil.  I could forgive the physics defying shenanigans of Legolas in LOTR because it was once or twice and they actually included that lovely scene from the book where he is walking on top of the snow on the mountain, but the Hobbit stuff was just straight out of a parody skit, it was comedy but I wasn't laughing.. There were a few glimpses of light in the performances of Richard Armitage and Martin Freeman, and the guys who play Balin and Dwalin. The rest of it was dross to be forgotten asap.

I just can't bring myself to care (positively or negatively) about the movies anymore. Adios Middle-earth, and sayonara PJ.

Honestly I love the behind the scenes stuff more than I do the hobbit films. I can watch that stuff all the time. As for the actual films seen Em once and that was enough. My son wants to watch LOTR tomorrow so we're gonna start FOR and watch all 3 films. Then will come all the behind the scenes stuff including the hobbit extras. But since neither of my boys nor I care for those films they will be omitted from our LOTR marathon

Someone posted this Finnish review at TORN. It's a little awkwardly written but I think it's because of the translation.

Also: Petty threw in his 2 cents. Seems he just couldn't help himself.

http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?guest=127821001&do%3Dpost_view_flat%3Bsb%3Dpost_time%3Bso%3DDESC%3Bpost%3D816464=View+Flat+Mode#816464

Here's an informal one:
This is interesting to me in that it a.) reiterated the same criticisms heard the world over and b.) made me wonder if book readers aren't able to see how the battle was clumsily handled in terms of describing who won, how they won and what the aftermath was, because the knowledge of the outcome is second nature to us.

:http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?guest=127821001&do%3Dpost_view_flat%3Bsb%3Dpost_time%3Bso%3DDESC%3Bpost%3D816434=View+Flat+Mode#816434

I am dearly looking forward to cinema sins' review. Does anyone know why their Desolation of Smaug review was initially banned?

Petty threw in his 2 cents. Seems he just couldn't help himself.- Stig

For what it was worth. Didnt go down well with one poster there it seems!

Actually, the scene that stuck out to me as most genuine and memorable in BoFA was the aftermath scene, with Gandalf knocking about trying to clean and fill his pipe, while Bilbo looks rather dumbfounded at this rather pedestrian annoyance at the end of an epic battle.

It works brilliantly; two wonderful actors playing off each other without a word to be said. They could have mucked it up with dialogue, but took time to just let it happen. Wasn't in the book, definitely not vintage PJ; but to me the best scene in all three movies and completely true to the characters. If they had done more of this kind of thing the movies might have been worth watching.