Doctor Who [9]
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:12 am
- Spoiler:
- I was never a huge fan of the Sim Master. He wasnt bad he just never seemed like the same person from classic Who. Missy nailed it though, she played the part the way an actor approaches playing the Doctor in that there were bits of the previous actors performance in everything she did. Both Delgado ad Ainsley were evident in her performance and I loved that.
But the main difference was the story- the Master two parter in RTD was one of the poorest ever, with a whole episode worth of plot and set up wiped away and forgotten within 30 seconds of part two. Nothing had consequences.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by azriel Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:13 pm
- Spoiler:
- So sorry but, I nearly choked & shouted out FFS ! when Missy floated down with umbrella & looking for all the world as Mary fooking Poppins !Thats the only thing I disliked.Just one thing out of the whole she-bang,but, it is personal taste & not really relevant. There's 'Muff-it' saying about a Victorian nanny look, yeah ? there wasnt 1000s of Poppins looka likes about in Victorian clothes ? What about Matron Redfern from David Tennant time ? SHE looked more nannyish ?
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:10 pm
- Spoiler:
- Well she was deliberately doing a Mary Poppins because it amused her. I dont think her getting a laugh out of Poppins is any different from her singing 'Hey Missy!' whilst captured, or the Sim Master singing Scissor Sisters whilst dancing round the Doctor. Just the Master having personal amusement with human culture.
Going on the behind the scenes Moffat wrote she looked like a Victorian nanny, but the details of the costume seem to have been down entirely to the costume department
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Mrs Figg Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:22 pm
- Spoiler:
- I didnt find Missy scary in the slightest, I thought she was wishy washy and unconvincing, as for the army for the Doctor, I didnt buy it.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:33 pm
- Spoiler:
- I thought the army- giving the Doctor the means to right all those wrongs- was powerful and fitted perfectly with the character arc of 12 since the start and forced him to confront it within himself and have to make a decision. It brought everything together, from Danny the soldier to 'am I good man' in one idea. For me thats good writing indeed.
And Missy bloody terrified me, I loved how she was so unpredictable.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:41 pm
- Spoiler:
- Couple of quotes from Death in Heaven which caught my ear, both of which I thought were pushing the edge and typical of Moffat that he slipped them in there and got away with it.
Firstly the Doctors comment on hearing the President is onboard- '"We don't want Americans, they'd only start praying"
and Missy's comment about the exploding cybermen- "Cybermen don't blow themselves up for no reason, they're not human."
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Bluebottle Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:46 pm
Pettytyrant101 wrote:
- Spoiler:
And Missy bloody terrified me, I loved how she was so unpredictable.
- Spoiler:
- The whole World President thing did bring us straight back to the whole, the Doctor being the most important and powerful person in the world/galaxy/universe thing though. And, honestly, I don't see him being a very good general, which UNIT should well know from their previous involvement with him. So, not sold on that part.
I did like the characterization of the Master though.
And who knows, it's set in present day-ish, he's probably seen Marry Poppins.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:52 pm
- Spoiler:
- I think the Doctor proved himself to UNIT in the 3rd and 4th Doctor era more than enough, and they do know him well its why they dart gun him and put him on the plane in handcuffs and present the whole President thing to him as a fait accompli once they are in the air. That is knowing him well.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Orwell Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:23 pm
- Spoiler:
- The Master becoming Mistress Mary Poppins. Regenerating souls and bones into cybermen. Brigadiers finding their humaity to save their daughters while only one other cyberman - presumably (that's Pinky) - do so. Ridiculous! But that's Dr Who all over. The more I think about it, the more I like it. If folk want super-duper concepts, watch something more grown up (takes itself too seriously, that is), and if it's better mature storeis, watch a chick flick --- but I like this Dr Who as it is in all it's captivating variability. Five Stars for the series. I'm a Who man again. Thanks Peter (and Jemma...
)
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Bluebottle Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:38 pm
Pettytyrant101 wrote:
- Spoiler:
- Spoiler:
- Yes, but he proves himself as a pretty untrustworthy scientific adivisor, not as a leader or president, and certainly not as a general. The character I associate with the Doctor would be wholly unsuited as any form of army commander.
Though maybe I associate things too much with the fourth Doctor, who would probably have refused the role if offered. The third was certainly a bit different.. but I still don't really buy it.
The Doctor to me is the antithesis of someone who would be "the leader of earths armies."
I know they adressed it decently towards the end, but still not fond of the idea.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:08 pm
- Spoiler:
- 12 would refuse too- thats why they drug him and handcuff and put him on a plane before telling him.
I think, especially in light of NuWHo earth/alien events that earth deciding if aliens attack they want the Doctor leading the defense is not unreasonable. I would want him too. I actually think its one of earths more sensible ideas, usually the Doctor turns up and has to spend a lot of time convincing stupid skeptical humans there even is a threat before eventually after half the planet has been devastated saving the day for them. But after this has happened a few times it seems earth has finally decided if aliens attack and the Doctor is about dont ask him stupid questions just give him the keys to the planet
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Orwell Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:01 pm
- Spoiler:
- Oh pooh! Blue!
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Bluebottle Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:18 pm
Pettytyrant101 wrote:
- Spoiler:
I think, especially in light of NuWHo earth/alien events that earth deciding if aliens attack they want the Doctor leading the defense is not unreasonable. I would want him too. I actually think its one of earths more sensible ideas, usually the Doctor turns up and has to spend a lot of time convincing stupid skeptical humans there even is a threat before eventually after half the planet has been devastated saving the day for them. But after this has happened a few times it seems earth has finally decided if aliens attack and the Doctor is about dont ask him stupid questions just give him the keys to the planet
- Spoiler:
- Well, then there's something wrong with nuwho.
Hey, I'm just being crabbit.
That's to be commended, no? 
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:33 pm
Yes it is, but, crabbit must also have justification.
- Spoiler:
And in this case I dont think there is. The script is obviously aware of all this and plays it accordingly. 12 would no more willingly be general of earth than he would Missy's cyber army.
He is told he is the President after the fact, but he doesnt actually issue a single order, he does however mock the General they have assigned to him and his words on the General saluting him sums ups 12's views perfectly on the matter "Don't do that. You're going to give yourself a concussion. Actually that explains all of military history now that I think about it."
And then of course there is the entire conversation at the end with Missy which relates directly to this very question.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Mrs Figg Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:04 pm
I like Paul he says it like it is. specially about poor Danny Pink, the most under used great character evah!
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Orwell Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:50 pm
- Spoiler:
- I think Pink is a good character because he's not over-used. In a way I think it is like art resembling life; he lived, things happened, and he died - wthout the stereotypical plot arc. I think it was an effective and fresh way to use him.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:01 pm
- Spoiler:
- I also think Moffat was conscious of when the show was being broadcast- on the eve of Remembrance Sunday in an Anniversary Year for the fallen of WW1. Danny the soldier was very much in the mold of those of WW1. Understated, quietly stoic, heroic only at need, haunted and wounded by his experiences yet going beyond and above the call of duty when need calls to protect those he loves and all those he has never met or known.
His speech to the Fallen also seemed to me to reflect sentiments of the Remembrance occasion, as was the manner in which Danny went about it. There was criticism of both generals and fanatics and the reminder that it was the common folk, the everyday soldiers who saved the day, who endured, who suffered yet quietly triumphed in the end even when the cost was their own lives. Especially on the second watch I felt Danny represented them.
And I think how he was written from the beginning, understated, nothing seemingly special in personality or character, an ordinary person with an ordinary job and an ordinary life. Its a lot easier to write bigger than life characters, super heroes and folk who are remarkable than it is to write one who is a normal person that finds themselves in the position of having to make extraordinary sacrifices. And I feel Moffat wrote Danny with these things in mind. Prior to the finale the most heroic thing he had Danny do was distract a robot by jumping. In every way he was written to be down to earth, quite literally, he never went or asked to go in the TARDIS, he had no desire to see the wonders of the universe because he just wanted to focus on what was important to him in his life and to appreciate that.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Orwell Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:10 am
- Spoiler:
- Aye! And he was scarred by the accidental killing of a child when he clearly cared about children.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:33 am
'Doctor Who star Peter Capaldi filmed a movie video to comfort a nine-year-old autistic boy over the death of his gran.
Thomas’s dad Ross said his son responded by smiling for the first time since his grandma’s death.
He said: “He was beaming from ear to ear and couldn’t believe what he was seeing.
“The way that Peter mentions the bereavement without actually mentioning it is very, very clever.
“Where Thomas is autistic, he doesn’t feel emotions the same way the rest of us do so this has been incredibly hard for him. This message seems to have given him the strength to keep going, with his chin up.”
“He took the message to mean he can be happy after what’s happened.
It was almost like a light switch. It’s made such a difference to Thomas. He can go into lockdown... but all that subsided the minute he sat down and watched that video.
I think Peter’s a fantastic bloke and I’d love the opportunity to thank him myself."
Thomas’s dad Ross said his son responded by smiling for the first time since his grandma’s death.
He said: “He was beaming from ear to ear and couldn’t believe what he was seeing.
“The way that Peter mentions the bereavement without actually mentioning it is very, very clever.
“Where Thomas is autistic, he doesn’t feel emotions the same way the rest of us do so this has been incredibly hard for him. This message seems to have given him the strength to keep going, with his chin up.”
“He took the message to mean he can be happy after what’s happened.
It was almost like a light switch. It’s made such a difference to Thomas. He can go into lockdown... but all that subsided the minute he sat down and watched that video.
I think Peter’s a fantastic bloke and I’d love the opportunity to thank him myself."
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Mrs Figg Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:47 am
Pettytyrant101 wrote:
- Spoiler:
His speech to the Fallen also seemed to me to reflect sentiments of the Remembrance occasion, as was the manner in which Danny went about it. There was criticism of both generals and fanatics and the reminder that it was the common folk, the everyday soldiers who saved the day, who endured, who suffered yet quietly triumphed in the end even when the cost was their own lives. Especially on the second watch I felt Danny represented them.
And I think how he was written from the beginning, understated, nothing seemingly special in personality or character, an ordinary person with an ordinary job and an ordinary life. Its a lot easier to write bigger than life characters, super heroes and folk who are remarkable than it is to write one who is a normal person that finds themselves in the position of having to make extraordinary sacrifices. And I feel Moffat wrote Danny with these things in mind. Prior to the finale the most heroic thing he had Danny do was distract a robot by jumping. In every way he was written to be down to earth, quite literally, he never went or asked to go in the TARDIS, he had no desire to see the wonders of the universe because he just wanted to focus on what was important to him in his life and to appreciate that.
all very poetic but sadly the depth you see is coming from your imagination and not from something intrinsic to the writing. actually poor Danny is little more than a plot device, and is killed off in a pretty shallow nod to 'current affairs'. he is there to pull heartstrings as we have all been moved by soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan coming home in body bags. I think Moffat has cynically used our predisposition to have sympathy for soldiers at the moment, and using a dead Iraqi kid was purely a cynical marketing ploy.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:02 am
- Spoiler:
- I dont think so. Danny's speech is clear in praising the acts of the ordinary soldier, less so on those who have lead them- a very common critic of WW1. Also referring to them as The Fallen, is very reminiscent of how WW1 soldiers are referred to in commemorations.
(for example- 'A train decorated to commemorate the start of World War One arrives at London's King's Cross station before travelling to Edinburgh.
The train named 'For the Fallen' is painted with poignant images, stories and tributes to the people who served and died in the war.'- BBC News)
"This is not a good day, this is Earth's darkest hour. We are the Fallen. And today we shall rise. The Army of the Dead will save the Land of the Living. This is not the order of a General, nor the whim of a lunatic, this is a promise. The promise of a Soldier."
Moffat ios a professional writer at the top of his game. He doesnt choose words and phrases randomly. And when you combine Danny's ending with how he has been portrayed to this point it seems to me to make a strong case for Moffat writing a very ordinary man, but with the potential to save a world if need rises, in the mould of being a tribute to the real men and women who fought and died.
It also fits well with the Doctors claim immediately prior that he is not a hero, men like Danny are, men who dont look for trouble who dont seek to right wrongs, who arent wanting or trying to get involved, but who find themselves involved anyway and excel and make the ultimate sacrifice in doing so.
That all seems very WW1 Remembrance Day stuff to me in sentiment.
And Moffat has a history of planning episodes way ahead to coincide with real dates (series 5 for example the finale hinged on 'Amy's time' a precise date which turned out to be the very date on which the episode was broadcast.
I dont think that is the point at all. Danny had to be a soldier to make he comparison, and therefore he had to have fought in a recent war. Same as in Sherlock Watson had to have fought in a recent war.
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Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Mrs Figg Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:18 am
- Spoiler:
- Danny is there merely as a foil to the Doctors seeming distaste for soldiers, he's there as a foil for Claras bitter-sweet ending. he is not a real person in his own right and is not really treated with much respect for most of the time, little more than 'PE'. His sacrifice is there to force the Doctor into giving soldiers some respect for once, idem the Brigadier saluting thing. Its less about Danny the human being, more another lesson needed for The Doctor. I had hoped they would have developed Danny into an interesting character in his own right, but it wasnt to be.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:34 am
- Spoiler:
- Danny is there merely as a foil to the Doctors seeming distaste for soldiers- Figg
I would say it was exactly opposite, Moffat emphasied the Doctors dislike for soldiers as a means to explore the idea of what a hero really is, and it ain't the Doctor, its Danny. Thats what the Doctor realises at the end, thats why the salute is earned.
'His sacrifice is there to force the Doctor into giving soldiers some respect for once'
I would say his sacrifice is there to help the Doctor understand who he is. The entire speech at the end to Missy about not being a hero, or a good man, or a soldier, or a general is about this. And its upon coming to that realisation that the Doctor gives Danny the control of the cyber army- the Doctor cant and wont lead an army, but Danny can, because unlike the Doctor Danny really is a good man.
And Danny's good man credentials are confirmed at the very end when he sends the boy back rather than save himself.
Also we have the part emphasizing that the Doctor is not motivated by goodness, but by practicality, when Danny tells him the only way to find out what will happen is to effectively kill him- "Clara watch this, this is who the Doctor is. Watch the blood soaked old general in action. I can't see properly because this thing is not activated. If you want to know whats coming you have to switch it on. And didn't all those beautiful speeches just disappear in the face of a tactical advantage, Sir.
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*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
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*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Mrs Figg Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:15 am
- Spoiler:
- you would have thought the Doctor would have got his act together by now. I mean how many people have to be sacrificed before he 'gets it'.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:28 pm
Well thats a fair enough point to raise, but not about the finale I feel, as it was the question asked from the start of the series so it being addressed in the finale is a bit late to complain about the topic when its been building to this for 11 prior episodes.
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*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
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*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
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